Online Job Applications

OneYorkshireLass

vyle wrote: »

My current employer does not issue references, other than to simply say: "We can confirm X worked here from Y to Z"

My previous employer no longer has anybody working there who knows me so that's pointless. Why can't I give someone else who does?

It's usually your previous OR current employer and then someone who knows you outside of family - so a friend/former colleage/church leader or someone like that.

I've never * heard of references being asked from TWO employment positions ... or have I read that wrong?

I don't work in HR now.

* Actually I've heard of it once - it was requested on an application form I've filled in. I didn't bother listing a second employer and they never asked about it.

Dave_C_2

OneYorkshireLass wrote: »

I've previously thrown in the bin those that say 'please refer to CV'.

My point exactly.
I'd spent a lot of time and effort with professional help polishing my CV, always tweaking the CV slightly to ensure that the relevant experience and qualifications are made clear.
So saying as a retired electronics Engineer I am sure that no-one in any personnel department would have had any clue about what was relevant about my experience or qualifications to the job being applied for.

Dave

NBLondon

Dave_C wrote: »

My point exactly.
I'd spent a lot of time and effort with professional help polishing my CV, always tweaking the CV slightly to ensure that the relevant experience and qualifications are made clear.
So saying as a retired electronics Engineer I am sure that no-one in any personnel department would have had any clue about what was relevant about my experience or qualifications to the job being applied for.

Dave

Thing is Dave, when there are lots of applicants, the HR drones are used to filter out 70% before anyone who might understand the job spec ever sees it. They just match the phrases in the job spec with what they see. So, tweaking your CV is the right approach but if you don't play the game their (annoying) way it might not ever get read.

So you may miss out on a company with a brilliant technical team you would have fitted in with because they never knew you existed.

The way round that is networking and industry contacts so that the technical guys already know (of) you and bypass Human Remains.

OneYorkshireLass

Dave_C wrote: »

So saying as a retired electronics Engineer I am sure that no-one in any personnel department would have had any clue about what was relevant about my experience or qualifications to the job being applied for.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I've got HR experience in the construction, retail and local government sectors and always knew what experience and qualifications applicants needed.

Whenever people put 'please refer to CV' on their application I would discount them because it would tell me that if they can't be bothered to write a few sentences on a piece of paper, then they'd probably be equally as lax in their job.

darkpool

OneYorkshireLass wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I've got HR experience in the construction, retail and local government sectors and always knew what experience and qualifications applicants needed.

Whenever people put 'please refer to CV' on their application I would discount them because it would tell me that if they can't be bothered to write a few sentences on a piece of paper, then they'd probably be equally as lax in their job.

i work as an engineer in construction, i've never met an HR person that knew anything about construction or the job that i did. tbh i always thought HR people just printed the CVs and gave them to someone that actually knew what experience the candidate should have.

whenever i've had an interview with a HR person present she (it's always a woman) just sits there with a blank look on her face whenever it gets round to technical questions.

Dave_C_2

OneYorkshireLass wrote: »

Whenever people put 'please refer to CV' on their application I would discount them because it would tell me that if they can't be bothered to write a few sentences on a piece of paper, then they'd probably be equally as lax in their job.

The alternative view is that the applicant is not pandering to the meaningless whims of a poor HR department and is merely being efficient by not repeating the same information. Do you want a time waster who works slavishly to the rules or an efficient worker who gets the job done with minimal effort and time?

Even better if the form is sent in a machine editable format so that the relevant information can be copied and pasted from the CV to the form - everybody wins. However this is a technical measure and beyond the knowledge of most HR departments.:)

Dave

soothyerboots

Dave_C wrote: »

Working on the theory that I don't want to work for a company with a poor or lazy personnel department, I used to use the words "Please refer to attached CV". Copy once and paste many times.

Dave

On that basis, maybe the company wouldn't want a poor, lazy employee who can't be bothered to complete a form, and thereby isn't showing enough interest in the work, working for them? :cool:

darkpool

soothyerboots wrote: »

On that basis, maybe the company wouldn't want a poor, lazy employee who can't be bothered to complete a form, and thereby isn't showing enough interest in the work, working for them? :cool:

so how does putting the exact same information that's in your CV into an online form show you are a good employee?

you not think the experience and qualifications you have in your CV show how dedicated an employee you are likely to be?

CVs are normally two pages long, and they are usually in the same approximate layout. how long does it take for an HR person to scan a CV and find the contact details and employment history?

System

darkpool wrote: »

so how does putting the exact same information that's in your CV into an online form show you are a good employee?

you not think the experience and qualifications you have in your CV show how dedicated an employee you are likely to be?

CVs are normally two pages long, and they are usually in the same approximate layout. how long does it take for an HR person to scan a CV and find the contact details and employment history?

To make an HR's job more efficient they will scan the application form into a computer system which will allow it to be accessed at many different locations. They could manually type this information into the system but if its a big company with hundreds of applicants for each position advertised then that would take a considerable amount of time.

I assume in your career as an engineer you took advantage of any technological improvements that made your job easier/quicker?

vyle

OneYorkshireLass wrote: »

It's usually your previous OR current employer and then someone who knows you outside of family - so a friend/former colleage/church leader or someone like that.

I've never * heard of references being asked from TWO employment positions ... or have I read that wrong?

I don't work in HR now.

* Actually I've heard of it once - it was requested on an application form I've filled in. I didn't bother listing a second employer and they never asked about it.

The past three times I've applied for jobs, each form said something to the effect of:

"Please provide a referee from your two most recent employers."

I don't know many people who would count as being "respectable" people either, so I'm usually stuck when it comes to references. Because it's not allowed to be friends or family, and I would NEVER trust anybody from the church so I usually end up having to break the rules, write my own reference and get a friend to sign it as a previous manager.

Do they ever actually check references and at what point do they check them?