English Baccalaureate ?

squidge60

This is forgetting that in the rush to push the brightest students towards the courses that make the school look good, they could easily be doing them a complete disservice. If you don't like something, forcing them to do it because they could cope with the work is likely to turn them off education completely. I know for a fact that shoving me onto the academic stream meant I couldn't wait to get the hell out of education and I put in no more than the absolute minimum effort on anything. Got As (no A*s then), but hated every moment of every single day. But my being the girl with the highest GCSE grades in the school made them feel good about themselves, I suppose.


This is what concerns me about dd it feels abit (i guess for all parents) full on tests/awards/exams/predicted results etc

Oldernotwiser

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

This is forgetting that in the rush to push the brightest students towards the courses that make the school look good, they could easily be doing them a complete disservice. If you don't like something, forcing them to do it because they could cope with the work is likely to turn them off education completely. I know for a fact that shoving me onto the academic stream meant I couldn't wait to get the hell out of education and I put in no more than the absolute minimum effort on anything. Got As (no A*s then), but hated every moment of every single day. But my being the girl with the highest GCSE grades in the school made them feel good about themselves, I suppose.



And that we simply don't need everybody to have a degree in this country, or anywhere. A good builder doesn't need a degree, he doesn't need an A level in history - but it would be useful for him to have a GCSE in DT at the age of 18, as it demonstrates him to be capable of reading plans, to be able to present himself in pitching for a contract, to be confident enough to hold his own onsite amongst the older blokes.



Marketing it as compulsory for university entrance is nonsense. You can't stipulate it as the only qualification when there are others, where there are students older, from different countries, that have been homeschooled. It's just scaremongering in order, quite frankly, for the providers to make more money by implying their brand is better.


The options aren't restricted as such - if you take the bac, you do the generalised classroom based, theoretical stuff and your job applications look just like every other middleclass kid with parents who think pretending it's just like a French education makes their kid better when applying for teacher training with their provincial university 2:2. If you want to do a specific course, like medicine, music or the like, you take GCSE then A levels.

Mind you, bringing your own educational experiences (particularly negative) to bear on your children is often not a good idea either.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Mind you, bringing your own educational experiences (particularly negative) to bear on your children is often not a good idea either.

Seems to me that encouraging a child to do things that they enjoy and are good at, and looking to help them maximise their strengths and passions with a view to being more than the next generic schoolleaver is a heck of a lot better than turning them off the idea of education or telling them that their abilities have no worth whatsoever.


You only have to look at how much of a pain a bored or disinterested gifted child can be in a class to see how unsuitable one-size-fits-all, you-are-all-the-same education screws children over. Or a child with specific difficulties.

bestpud

I'm not convinced schools prepare pupils for the workplace.

They need to stop faffing about with qualifications and start actually educating them again.

Changing the end result of a system that spoon feeds children en mass and tells them they are wonderful at everything when a lot of them can't even spell is not going to help. They will just be spoon fed a different variety of food!

All this league table nonsense needs to go as it's taking the focus away from quality teaching. It's encouraging teachers to teach to the test and I fail to see how that is useful in real terms.

What happens is you have a load of 'high performing' students turn up at university with the right grades but no ability to think for themselves or even write a good essay. Crazy!!

Britain used to have a great education system but it's gone to the dogs.

claire16c

On the website posted it says:

"There has also been a decline in the opportunity to take some core subjects, such as modern foreign languages, history and geography at Key Stage 4. This situation disproportionately affects pupils from the poorest backgrounds or attending schools in disadvantaged areas. For example, in 2009 just four per cent of pupils qualifying for free school meals took chemistry or physics,"

I thought Science was compulsorary at GCSE?

The subjects listed just sounded to me like normal GCSEs? Most people I know had to do the core subjects and then were allowed to pick 2 or 3 others of their own choice.

gonzo127

such a difficult one to move forward with, my personal feeling is that we should get rid of comprehensive schools and move towards a academic and a vocational specialist schools (although you would need a specific core list of subjects for all schools - although this should probably only be a small list) as one size education does not suite all.

the big problems i see is that my (step) kids are of at different ends of the spectrum, my ss is very academic and really excells at the tradional subjects whereas my sd is more vocational and loves drama, art DT etc.

however in trying to give them a varied education they are both doing/done subjects that they dont like.

such as my ss ended up doing drama and music for his GCSE's he hated every last min of them repeatedly telling us they where a waste of f'ing time, he cant play a instramant and hates drama with a passion because he is quite shy. yet due to some parrot fashion learning (reading a few books and learning one specfic song) and a lot of teaching to the test, he ended up coming out with a A for drama and a B in music, yet ask him what he learnt and he will say nothing.

and the oposite is happening with my sd, she would love to be able to do a lot more subjects around dance, drama etc, but has her choices limited because she must do so many academic subjects that she hates

claire16c

gonzo127 wrote: »

such as my ss ended up doing drama and music for his GCSE's he hated every last min of them repeatedly telling us they where a waste of f'ing time, he cant play a instramant and hates drama with a passion because he is quite shy. yet due to some parrot fashion learning (reading a few books and learning one specfic song) and a lot of teaching to the test, he ended up coming out with a A for drama and a B in music, yet ask him what he learnt and he will say nothing.

and the oposite is happening with my sd, she would love to be able to do a lot more subjects around dance, drama etc, but has her choices limited because she must do so many academic subjects that she hates

How come he did drama and music then? did his school really force him to?

My school wouldnt let you do GCSE music unless you could already play an instrument.

And same for your dd - isnt she allowed to pick drama and dance/pe then?

Lunar_Eclipse

claire16c wrote: »

My school wouldnt let you do GCSE music unless you could already play an instrument.

Same here. DD1 really likes music and has a natural ear for it, but will not be allowed to take it for GCSE because the school requirement is that pupils must reach at least grade 4 level in their first instrument, ideally with another, before starting the course. In reality, most of the children are at grade 6-8 on their first instrument and grade 4-6 on their second, when they start the 2 year GCSE course.

I think it's such a shame, but understandable, although I don't know if this is the school being picky, or the GCSE course needing students to play at that level. Having said that, the sad reality is that if she's faced with a choice of knowing she'll probably get an A* in history, latin or something else, or a B/C in music, she'll need to choose the former to meet her later academic goals (medicine.) You don't need to tell me it's all wrong ...

Acc72

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Any potential employer who doesn't realise quite how useful and transferable these skills are is as blinkered as the politicians who are seeking to further quash the teaching of such subjects in school, college and at university

I am not necessarily disagreeing with what you say, but that is fine as an academic argument but it doesn't actually help the people who have studied Art, Dance and Drama etc. to find a job.

The problem with these subjects is that they are seen by many as being more of a "hobby" than an actual "subject" and a soft option.

gonzo127

claire16c wrote: »

How come he did drama and music then? did his school really force him to?

My school wouldnt let you do GCSE music unless you could already play an instrument.

And same for your dd - isnt she allowed to pick drama and dance/pe then?

due to the way the schools are/where run, they do 'force' them in some ways due to the timetable, and their policy.

basically its set up so that you have to do 8/10 academic/traditional classes (English, Maths, Science included), but you also have to do between 2-4 vocational classes (10-14 GCSE's in total) to 'give them the best and most rounded education' but as ever it has to be fitted around what teachers they have so they didnt get to do all their first choices. (different schools but simular way of working due to being small schools ~800 students including the 6th forms so only around 100 students per year group)

but then SS did come out with good results without putting in any effort at all other than learning to play a single song on the guitar, but then again that was done through tab music so wasnt really learning much then anyway, and then being taught to the test.

and SD, well she was unfortunate that a lot of the things she would have wanted to do clashed with each other so is left with minimum vocation courses but we are getting her to do extra things outside of school which i am hoping help her, such as being part of a youth theater group attached to one of the local theaters