English Baccalaureate ?

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

LandyAndy wrote: »

No. It is meant to ensure that pupils don't just get guided towards 'soft'subjects but are encouraged to study 'core' academic subjects as well. For most children it shouldn't be any cause for concern.

I think it is quite a good idea that schools are incentivised to encourage pupils to take more traditional subjects as well as leaving room for plenty of the more peripheral subjects.

Yes. I've read DD's school's Bac.

It precludes all the equally rigorous subjects that she is good at in favour of the usual suspects. So she is going to be avoiding the bac and taking the more conventional path where she has the option to actually go to her strengths and get the highest grades she can.

Music isn't a soft subject. Depending on the tuition and course content, it involves physics, biology, history, geography, politics, art, languages, mathematics and the ability to actually play as well.

Art isn't a soft subject. It involves pretty much all of the above as well. Plus chemistry.

Design and technology. All of the above.

Dance. Same again.


The difference is that they also require a degree of physical skill at the same time, in addition to the usual skills of essays, factual recall, applying concepts to new situations, presenting work in a logical, coherent manner and being able to show that they can learn stuff when it's put on the timetable.

LandyAndy

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Yes. I've read DD's school's Bac.

It precludes all the equally rigorous subjects that she is good at in favour of the usual suspects. So she is going to be avoiding the bac and taking the more conventional path where she has the option to actually go to her strengths and get the highest grades she can.

Music isn't a soft subject. Depending on the tuition and course content, it involves physics, biology, history, geography, politics, art, languages, mathematics and the ability to actually play as well.

Art isn't a soft subject. It involves pretty much all of the above as well. Plus chemistry.

Design and technology. All of the above.

Dance. Same again.


The difference is that they also require a degree of physical skill at the same time, in addition to the usual skills of essays, factual recall, applying concepts to new situations, presenting work in a logical, coherent manner and being able to show that they can learn stuff when it's put on the timetable.

I think you have misunderstood what I meant by 'soft':(.

I didn't mean easy.

My DS1 did Art GCSE and got an A*. It was one of the most time consuming and difficult subjects he did.

My DS2 is doing Drama. Again time consuming and hard work if done well.

However, they are subjects that are generally, rightly or wrongly, unregarded in the workplace (specialised jobs excepted).

I had no intention of insulting you or your DD. If you feel insulted I apologise.:(

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

LandyAndy wrote: »

I think you have misunderstood what I meant by 'soft':(.

I didn't mean easy.

My DS1 did Art GCSE and got an A*. It was one of the most time consuming and difficult subjects he did.

My DS2 is doing Drama. Again time consuming and hard work if done well.

However, they are subjects that are generally, rightly or wrongly, unregarded in the workplace (specialised jobs excepted).

I had no intention of insulting you or your DD. If you feel insulted I apologise.:(

Thank you. I had misunderstood you, and apologies for that, too.

mountainofdebt

If it's anything like the Welsh Bacc tell her not to bother

Acc72

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Music isn't a soft subject. Depending on the tuition and course content, it involves physics, biology, history, geography, politics, art, languages, mathematics and the ability to actually play as well.

Art isn't a soft subject. It involves pretty much all of the above as well. Plus chemistry.

Design and technology. All of the above.

Dance. Same again.

I agree that it can be good to study one of the above subjects as part of a varied curriculum.

However the perception is that a pupil who studies Music, Art, Design and Dance is possibly not best prepared for the modern job market.

Whenever I speak with people who study these subjects and ask what they want to do they always reply "I can teach Music/Art/Design/Dance" which seems a bit circular to me.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

They haven't been taught to see how transferable their skills are, then. Which means they are being let down by others not telling them exactly how useful their skills are outside the fixed little box some have put the Arts and practical skills in.



A person qualified in those subjects can remember and understand complex patterns and concepts to the level of being able to develop those concepts to a further level. They can remember large amounts of information with near perfect recall. They can understand intent and context, thus being able to look at all sides of an argument, discussion or proposal. They can appreciate different interpretations of any situation.

They are confident and articulate in high pressured situations. They have a good understanding of presentation and clarity of communication.

They can conceptualise in text, sound, image, plans, no faffing around trying to find which way they understand something. They can take information in one format and translate it into another for the benefit of a varied audience.


They can put together flat pack furniture without injury and damage to the equipment, fault find appliances and connections, use varied sources for discovering information. They can potentially fix clothing, make clothing, build sets, run lighting and PA systems.



Any potential employer who doesn't realise quite how useful and transferable these skills are is as blinkered as the politicians who are seeking to further quash the teaching of such subjects in school, college and at university level to something for wealthy students.


You may not need to understand and demonstrate the concept of tritone substitutions when sitting on the checkout at Poundland, but you certainly don't need to describe the concept of photosynthesis or noun declensions, either. And maybe they wouldn't be sitting on the checkout at Poundland, but got employment as a printer/website designer if they had been able to take Art, Design Technology and Science, as they would have got A - C in those, as compared to the D and E in Geography and History they were forced to take.

Caroline73_2

My DS is studying all the cores and a choice of less academic GCSEs as part of his Bacc. He's taking English, maths, double science, ICT, re, history, German, drama and art. I think there's another one too but my minds gone blank.

His school don't take GCSEs early for any level but they choose options in year 8 and study for GCSEs in years 9, 10 and 11. They do OCR (?) In ICT and art history btec in year 9. He's in G&T so not sure if its the same for children not taking GCSES and doing vocational courses.

thegirlintheattic

Unless your DD is on a restricted timetable or your school has very poor option blocks your DD should be able to do a subject like Music or Dance alongside the Ebac.

In our school they have to do English, Math and Science then have 5 choices, so history/geography and a language will only take up 2 out of their 5 options. So they have 3 options left - which should mean at least one art subject can be taken.

The idea of the EBac is to steer the brightest students towards the courses employers like and for them to take courses that prepare them for higher education. It doesn't mean they are harder than other subjects.

If you decide to steer your daughter away from the Ebac, bear in mind it is likely to become a university entrance requirement for most universities in a few years time.

JC9297

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

Unless your DD is on a restricted timetable or your school has very poor option blocks your DD should be able to do a subject like Music or Dance alongside the Ebac.

In our school they have to do English, Math and Science then have 5 choices, so history/geography and a language will only take up 2 out of their 5 options. So they have 3 options left - which should mean at least one art subject can be taken.

The idea of the EBac is to steer the brightest students towards the courses employers like and for them to take courses that prepare them for higher education. It doesn't mean they are harder than other subjects.

If you decide to steer your daughter away from the Ebac, bear in mind it is likely to become a university entrance requirement for most universities in a few years time.

Agree with this. Like it or not, top universities are not just interested in grades, they like applicants to have GCSEs and A levels in traditional subjects, dance or DT don't impress.


Obviously if this isn't relevant to your child it isn't so important, although schools will encourage the EBacc because it helps move them up the league tables.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

This is forgetting that in the rush to push the brightest students towards the courses that make the school look good, they could easily be doing them a complete disservice. If you don't like something, forcing them to do it because they could cope with the work is likely to turn them off education completely. I know for a fact that shoving me onto the academic stream meant I couldn't wait to get the hell out of education and I put in no more than the absolute minimum effort on anything. Got As (no A*s then), but hated every moment of every single day. But my being the girl with the highest GCSE grades in the school made them feel good about themselves, I suppose.



And that we simply don't need everybody to have a degree in this country, or anywhere. A good builder doesn't need a degree, he doesn't need an A level in history - but it would be useful for him to have a GCSE in DT at the age of 18, as it demonstrates him to be capable of reading plans, to be able to present himself in pitching for a contract, to be confident enough to hold his own onsite amongst the older blokes.



Marketing it as compulsory for university entrance is nonsense. You can't stipulate it as the only qualification when there are others, where there are students older, from different countries, that have been homeschooled. It's just scaremongering in order, quite frankly, for the providers to make more money by implying their brand is better.


The options aren't restricted as such - if you take the bac, you do the generalised classroom based, theoretical stuff and your job applications look just like every other middleclass kid with parents who think pretending it's just like a French education makes their kid better when applying for teacher training with their provincial university 2:2. If you want to do a specific course, like medicine, music or the like, you take GCSE then A levels.