Honda Civic Clutch Problem SOGA 1979

danny0001uk

Hi All,

Please read my letter below to Honda and there response if anyone could give me any advice on wear i stand that would be great too!

Dear Honda,

Having recently suffered from the clutch issues affecting the honda civic 2.2 diesel I would like to raise my concerns about the way this was resolved.


First of all


I am appalled that a company such as Honda know there is a major problem with the clutch in

the 2.2 (even having redesigned the part and issued a couple of service bulletins) and yet Honda and HUK deny the existance of an issue.


All this with a Official Honda Bullitien regarding this issue is in the public domain as below.


8g.hondaclub.cz/files/service_bulletin/Tips_09.pdf


Honda Stratsone at Leeds took this further and denied all knowledge of clutch problems in the 2.2 and wouldnt even inspect the vehicle which resulted in me having to travel at my expense in time and money to Harrogate where thankfully they would investigate.


Honda refused to say if they would cover the work until after they had stripped the box. If they then decided not to cover it I would have had to pay the full amount.


The reason I bought a Honda, and this is my first, was due to Hondas reputation for reliability and dealer support.

I feel very let down by the premature clutch failure. Which Honda have accepted it was premature and not fair wear and tear.

In my opinion with cases such as this, the supplier / vendor / manufacturer should be responsible for the entire cost of repairing something which has clearly not performed as it should.

I have heard that Honda are normally pretty good on out-of-warranty issues - I've seen stories of 5 year old engines (without full Honda service history) being replace and 7 year old auto boxes.

Obviously it seems Honda aren't what they used to be.


It is absolutely shocking how badly Honda have handled this clutch issue. They should have put significant resource into getting a clutch together that is up to the job and offered everyone with clutch failure a replacement free of charge .


As aleady stated Honda have accepted the failure is not due to normal wear and tear.


Therefore is it reasonable and accepted that a clutch may fail out of normal wear and tear (Which is also covered in the sales of goods act 1979 legislation )/ mileage of the vehicle?

If no, the full cost of repair should be met by Honda.


Whist I have paid for the work carried out to my vehicle, as I hold Honda UK responsible I will be pursuing them to recoup these costs through the legal route including court action if necessary.

As I hold Honda responsible I will give notice to take action in the small claims court via moneyclaimonline. if the amount I payed under protest is not refunded within 10 working days under the sales of goods act 1979 which covers items for a period of 6 years if they fails within thier

normal life as:

a) The normal life of this part should exceed 60,000 miles - my vehicle has only done 20,000

miles
b) The normal life of this part should extend to more than three years at average mileage

Especially given the fact that it has been confirmed by the photographs taken, that the damage is not due normal wear and tear

I find this appalling behaviour by Honda UK who proudly state on your website that Honda has

reclaimed second place overall in the JD Power Vehicle Ownership Satisfaction Study.

Ive heard from a Honda UK car dealer that Honda UK sales are really struggling - they were down 20% last year and they had some absolutely terrible months (Dec was down 40%). Including having no orders for vehicles with the new registration in for sept 11

Having said that, it doesn't seem a smart move from Honda treat customers as I have been treated and it feels like perhaps Honda have given up on some models/owners?

Regards,
Daniel Evans

Honda got in touch with me stating that

"When a vehicle has problems beyond the manufacturers warranty we examine each case and the circumstances individually and sometimes contribute towards a repair. This offer did not in any way constitute any admission of liability, but simply reflected our commitment to customer care."

"Whilst Limitation Act 1980 does usually apply a six year time limit to
claims for breach of contract, this does not mean that the supplying dealer, or the manufacturer is necessarily liable for any issues that arise within that six year period"

"We believe that the relevant question is whether the goods conformed to the contract at the time of supply,and it is our view that they did, and that the vehicle and clutch were supplied in satisfactory condition as required by the Sale of Goods Act (1979) (as amended). This is supported by the fact that you have not had any cause for complaint during the several years that you have owned the vehicle"

Please Help!

wealdroam

This seems to all boil down to Honda's response...

danny0001uk wrote: »

"We believe that the relevant question is whether the goods conformed to the contract at the time of supply,and it is our view that they did, and that the vehicle and clutch were supplied in satisfactory condition as required by the Sale of Goods Act (1979) (as amended). This is supported by the fact that you have not had any cause for complaint during the several years that you have owned the vehicle"

Sounds pretty good to me.

A few points...

1) your remedy under the Sale of Goods Act is usually with whoever sold the thing to you.
You haven't said where you bought the car, or when you bought it.
Did you buy direct from Honda?

2) after six months from purchase the onus is on you to prove that the fault was present at the time of sale... an inherent fault.
An independent engineers report may be necessary. Do you still have the faulty parts?

3) just because others have experienced the same problem, it does not necessarily mean that the part on your car is also affected. Again you may need that independent report.

danny0001uk

1) I bought the car from my parents who were the previous owner before.

2) Honda would not give me the faulty parts however I do have the photos of which they sent to Honda UK

3) On the invoice from honda its states that the pressure plate was warped and on the pictures you can cleary see that the clutch was not worn.

Do you think I can go anywhere with this?

Thanks

Danny

danny0001uk

If the pressure plate was warped but the clutch was showing no signs of wear and tear then surely the pressure plate was faulty at the time of sale?

Chimpofdoom

I know a honda mechanic who's relatively respected by Honda themselves... apparently the latest version of the civic (excluding the newest version, which is yet to be released), has been riddled with problems from day one!

Most of the mistakes he described as being cowboy/school boy errors and they were fixing them.

He also suggested they were discontinuing support for cars over 10 years old, so any Honda that's 10 years old and required a genuine part, had a 3 month wait. Basically a way to get folks to buy a new Honda.

His advice.. buy a Toyota.

Although ironically, you'll never find a 100% happy car owner, as wealdroam, you'll need to prove those parts were inherently faulty..

Out of curiosity did you buy the car brand new? How long have you had it when the fault happened?

wealdroam

danny0001uk wrote: »

If the pressure plate was warped but the clutch was showing no signs of wear and tear then surely the pressure plate was faulty at the time of sale?

I cannot answer your question. I am not an engineer.

In my opinion, you will need an independent engineer's report confirming your suspicions... that the fault was present at the time of sale.

danny0001uk

Im the 2nd owner the first of which was my parents and ive had the car about 14 months.

danny0001uk

The thing is Honda would refuse to give the old clutch to me even though the clutch was legally mine

4743hudsonj

As you bought the car privately from your parents you have no rights whatsoever inherent fault or not. SOGA does not apply here (after all SOGA is all about implied terms in contracts, you have no contract with Honda so there is nothing to breach)

You can keep trying based on goodwill but you have no legal ground to make a claim against Honda, the garage or even your parents. You are solely responsible for maintaining the vehicle, especially when it comes to consumables like clutches.

Please dont waste any money on reports or legal action as you will be thrown out of court.

arcon5

danny0001uk wrote: »

In my opinion with cases such as this, the supplier / vendor / manufacturer should be responsible for the entire cost of repairing something which has clearly not performed as it should.

[snip]


a) The normal life of this part should exceed 60,000 miles - my vehicle has only done 20,000 miles

The above post is correct, Honda have no liability as it was purchased as a private sale.

However -- regarding the highlighted points, I would think it fair the the dealer not cover the entire cost of repair, but cover 2/3 the price. This reflects the fact you have had 1/3 use of the clutch based on the normal life span.

Optimist

danny0001uk wrote: »

The thing is Honda would refuse to give the old clutch to me even though the clutch was legally mine

On another internet forum you have stated that the parts were replaced at Hondas cost and you had to pay labour. Something you seem to have failed to mention on here.

That would mean that the clutch was not legally yours. You exchanged the faulty one with Honda, so unless there was agreement to the contrary the clutch became theirs.

Essentially you are fighting over the labour costs and I would disagree with the advice you received on that forum. There is a good likelihood that the solution Honda offered would be deemed to be reasonable even assuming Honda had a contract with you

If the item had caused injury or damage then you could have claimed product liability against the manufacturer but as it is and going by your statements then you are depending on SOGA and as explained by 4743hudsonj the manufacturer or dealer had no contract with you