12yo son wants to live with dad - what type of custody do I go for

me4bargains

My 12yo has told me he wants to live with his dad who he has always been close to.
Obviously I'm upset but I want him to be happy. His dad is more than happy for him to live with him.
we've agreed that he will spend every other w/e and between 1-2 week nights with me.
His dad wants me to sign over custody to him, but after surfing the net I see joint custody is possible.
Now, can I insist on us signing a joint custody agreement or will he be able to go to court and get sole custody.

My son doesn't want me to sign anything, but I can understand why his dad wants it set in stone as he is self-employed and anything could happen financilly - at leats then he can claim benefits.

Bossyboots

I don't think you should worry about signing anything now. You don't actually "have custody" to sign over. It just so happens that up until now your son has been living with you. The courts do not expect couples to utilisie their time and services unless there is an unsolvable dispute. In these circumstances, you just implement the arrangement you have agreed on. If any difficulties arise in the future, deal with those at that time. Presumably the dad will claim the child benefit, re-register the child's address for school and doctor so I can't see how obtaining benefits would be a problem in any event.

I presume the father has parental responsibility?

On the assumption that he has, either of you is entitled to have the child living with you. If it doesn't work out therefore your son can come back to you. He is also of an age where his views will be taken into account so there seems to be absolute no reason to have any formal documents or make any applications to the court to formalise your arrangements.

Even with a Residence Order in place, if your son chose to return to your home he can do so and your ex would then have to go to court to get him back under his roof and the court is unlikely to go against what the child himself wants.

ben500

It's refreshing to see you taking the view you are in what must be quite an emotional time for you, speaking as an estranged father most of my life I would still advise you to seek joint custody, if your partner is as reasonable as yourself he will accept this without question.

I suspect your son doesn't want you to sign anything because really he isn't 100% about this and wants to keep his options open if things don't work out at his Dad's. He is proabably old enough to understand about "greener grass" if you know what I mean.

As for access as an absent parent I have always left the regularity of this strictly down to the child, you are a parent, not a babysitter, bolthole or means of revenge, I have always tried to give the message that the child in question was "welcome" not "obliged" and the mother that I am there for emergencies but not for nights out.

You may even find that your relationship will improve with your son, the time to watch out for is when you first disagree with your ex as to how he may now react if having full custody, his otherwise agreeable nature may dissappear now that he doesn't HAVE to give you consideration when making a decision. And god forbid if things do start going wrong and your son comes to you for help you may well have reduced your ability to help him.

I'm not trying to paint a picture of doom and gloom for you but I'd say that these are the type of things you should be considering before making a decision to give up parental rights, Joint custody with care and control to him should be acceptable and will leave you with peace of mind.

ben500

Bossyboots wrote:

I don't think you should worry about signing anything now. You don't actually "have custody" to sign over. It just so happens that up until now your son has been living with you. The courts do not expect couples to utilisie their time and services unless there is an unsolvable dispute. In these circumstances, you just implement the arrangement you have agreed on. If any difficulties arise in the future, deal with those at that time. Presumably the dad will claim the child benefit, re-register the child's address for school and doctor so I can't see how obtaining benefits would be a problem in any event.

I presume the father has parental responsibility?

On the assumption that he has, either of you is entitled to have the child living with you. If it doesn't work out therefore your son can come back to you. He is also of an age where his views will be taken into account so there seems to be absolute no reason to have any formal documents or make any applications to the court to formalise your arrangements.

Even with a Residence Order in place, if your son chose to return to your home he can do so and your ex would then have to go to court to get him back under his roof and the court is unlikely to go against what the child himself wants.

I would agree with most of what you say here but for the op the issue is that the father WANTS her to sign a custody order, which I'm sure could well cause her problems in the future and that she should retain equal rights for her childs sake.

Bossyboots

ben500 wrote:

I would agree with most of what you say here but for the op the issue is that the father WANTS her to sign a custody order, which I'm sure could well cause her problems in the future and that she should retain equal rights for her childs sake.

She retains equal rights even with a residence order in place. If her son wants to return to live with her, he simply has to move back. The father would have to apply to the court if he wants the child returned to him and then it will go down the road of a reporting officer being involved and the child's own view being taken into account. As a person with parental responsibility she would still be able to be involved in school matters, be entitled to school reports and to be consulted on medical decisions.

MJMum

This could be to cover his back re. finances, if he has been paying you child support, I would think. Have you discussed finances, as this seems to be where most "misunderstandings" start?

MJMum

As a person with parental responsibility she would still be able to be involved in school matters, be entitled to school reports and to be consulted on medical decisions

In THEORY...the practice can be much, much, much harder. (Wife of NRP who has been denied school reports, denied tickets to school plays "because the only allocation available has gone home with child", etc, etc, etc) Although hopefully this would not happen to you as you seem to have a good relationship still with your son's father.

me4bargains

MJMum wrote:

This could be to cover his back re. finances, if he has been paying you child support, I would think. Have you discussed finances, as this seems to be where most "misunderstandings" start?

He's never paid me a penny in child support so I went to the CSA who awarded me £5 per week!!
Just after that he took me to court for parental responsibilty and access(which he already had).
I strongly suspect, and maybe this is me being cynical, that he's on financial shaky ground thus needs every penny he can get.
He made me feel guilty for not aggreing to sign my son 'over' even saying my son will have to stay with me if I don't. I want my son to be happy and he wants to go to his dad but I'm not happy about signing anything.
My son is nearly 13 anyway and told his father the courts wouldn't want to intervene but he's not having any of it.
He keep banging on about if anything goes wrong with his job - I've decided I'm going to dig my heels and and refuse to sign anything.
What's the most he can do?
We also have an older daughter who is happy to stay with me.

LameDuck

I am a single dad of 3. I have joint resposibility with the children's mother. There is also a residence order in place whereby the children live with me but see their mother 2 weekends in 3 + every Wednesday evening from end of school day until 7pm + half the school holidays. However from the age of 10 the children can decide where they want to live.

My eldest son also decided at the age of 12(now 15) he wanted to stay with me permanently and he choose not to go to his mum's house at all. At 11(now 12) my daughter took the same route. My youngest son who is 9 follows the court order. The 2 oldest know they can see their mum at anytime but choose not to. My advice would be to find out exactly what your son wants to do and get an order following his request. I would also make sure that you both of you have parental resposibility as this means you get copies of any school reports(I believe schools have to provide these) I would also make sure that any custody order is for joint custody.

Although there have been some testing times over the last 5 years this arrangement has worked quite well, but I would say this is mainly to do with the fact it is a court order.

me4bargains

My son wants to come home to me once a week and every other weekend from Friday to Monday.
He also wants to spend half his holidays with me. We currently have a court order for both children to visit their dad every other week (saturday - Monday) and half school holidays but only if they want to because they are at an age where they may make other plans.

This is why I think its unecessary for me to sign custody papers, the more I think about it the more I have decided I don't need to.

thesaint

If the father wants this in writing, I do not see what is wrong with it.
If a woman wanted these assurances, I think that the tone of this thread would be very different.

When men have residency(not custody) awarded to them it is called into question by the authorities that they deal with. They often have to provide proof of what they are legitamately entitled to. If your son's father wants to apply for Child tax credits etc, he will need proof to do so. He would be entitled to these benefits, just as you are.

Since he had to take you to court for something he already had

Just after that he took me to court for parental responsibilty and access(which he already had).

He is covering his back. You don't have to sign anything, but why should he live under this unstability?

If you are both in agreement, I beleive that you don't need to go through a protracted court case. If things don't work out, you have to reverse what you have done.