Solar PV Feed In Tariffs - Good or Bad?

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

Not only am I 'struggling with that concept' it is laughable. We have a National Grid that takes electricity from generators and supplies it to consumers!

Mr C, as you know, I’m happy to give up some of my time to help clarify some of these issues, so I’ll donate a bit more time to assist you. However, as you seem determined to complicate this by rolling so many issues together, I’ll address them one at a time. But before that, your statement (above) may well explain your difficulties - we no longer just have generators and consumers, we also have a third category of generating consumers. The world is changing!

Issue 1. Tariff differentials, yes there were and still are different rates for differing size installs. We’ve discussed this many times, and my opinion is that targeting funds into the more future viable side of PV – demand reduction savings at retail prices, rather than grid supply at wholesale prices, is entirely logical, as FITs is an exercise in long term CO2 reduction, not short term maximisation of supply.

Issue 2. Whilst your argument relates to Aug 2011, and is both hindsight and hypothetical, it should of course still be honest. To claim a differential of 2:1 based on FIT rates of 20p (farm) and 40p (domestic) goes against the purpose of this site which is to share information and facts. So why you chose not to use the real figures of 33.8p (30.7p + 3.1p) v’s 44.85p (43.3p +1.55p) giving you a true differential of 1.33:1, is at the very least suspicious.

Issue 3. Your artificial boosting of the differential to 3:1, by claiming that PV farms export everything, but domestic systems can use any and all generation against their on-site demand. I can’t really add anything more to what I’ve said before, not importing units, means that the grid has more supply available for other customers, this is exactly the same as a PV farm exporting. I believe my 2 house mini-grid example sets this out clearly. Your argument is nothing more than a maths trick / accounting error, and as much as would like to, I simply cannot believe that you are not capable of understanding this.

Issue 4. You are now trying to introduce additional electrical consumption by PV households (above and beyond normal demand that existed before, during and after install), such as water heating. I assume you are trying to sneak this new side in as part of your usual smoke and noise tactics to prevent clear discussions, and to avoid admitting your maths error (see Issue 3.). This is a separate issue, however, you may not realise it, but this is still exporting the generated units. Whilst those units are not being exported at the same time, nor in the form of leccy, they are being exported in the form of reduced demand on gas, oil, lpg etc. However, if you are truly struggling with the simplicity of Isuue 3, then I doubt your chances of grasping this.

Issue 4 (cont). As Roger explained yesterday, changing electricity into other energy forms, will have some CO2 implications. But …. If the addition of a device such as the Immersun was to tip the balance between non subsidised viability of an install, then we may (post FITs) see PV installs that would not have otherwise taken place. These installs will, regardless of the way that the leccy is used, reduce household CO2 emissions, compared to not installing.

Feel free to avoid facts and waste time discussing potatoes. I guess we all have our little hobbies.

Mart.

Edit: Apologies, I failed to respond to your question on propaganda. If you don't like PV (which I suspect is the case) then you have every right to raise issues. However, if your arguments use false data, or attempt to misrepresent the true situation via maths tricks and confusion then that is propaganda, cheap, ugly, anti-PV propaganda. M.

Martyn1981

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

But at the same time ordinary householders increased their production with modest encouragement in the form of fertilisers and grain for "back yard" production of vegetables, chickens & rabbits.

Very true, but the interesting thing here, is that in the case of large scale agriculture, or energy production, you normally get efficiencies of scale. E.g. build a bigger wind-turbine and you generate dis-proportionately more energy. But with PV, there are no efficiencies of scale, as the same panels are in use, and larger inverters are no more efficient than the current crop of household inverters, available at around 97%+.

So you only get economies of scale, which will largely be swallowed up by annual running costs, that don't apply to roof mounted domestic and commercial installs.

It's a funny old game.

Mart.

Martyn1981

Desertec plans to use N. African sun to help Europe are in trouble, citing political and financial problems, plus the need for countries to achieve energy independence from within their borders.

But China may help, as they are involved with Desertec (Greater East Asia) and Europe might be a good teaching tool for them, particularly regarding HVDC transmission cables.

BBC news story:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20357167

Desertec site:-

http://www.desertec.org/en/global-mission/focus-region-greater-east-asia/

Mart.

John_Pierpoint

Think of the fun you could have spraying all those tubes and mirrors with a machine gun from the air !

Much easier to hide a Uranium 328/325 centrifuge underground.

http://www.marzeporgohar.org/en/content/analysis-clergys-nuclear-program-roozbeh-farahanipour

[Someone do a check on the hosting and age and supposed ownership of that web sit]

It dates back to the year 2000:

They can trample on a flower with their boots, but they can never kill it’s perfume.

(The Glorious Frontiers Party) was found on July 8th, 1998 in Tehran. It was established by a group of Nationalist secular writers and journalists.

Marze PorGohar was one of the most active groups present at the pro-Democracy uprising of the University students in July of 1999. On the fifth day of the uprising, on July 13th, MPG leaders and members were arrested and sent to the notorious Towhid, one of Islamic Republic’s secret prisons. Due to constant harassment of the Islamic elements, some members of this organization were forced to flee the country.
We gladly announce the continuation of Hezbe Marze PorGohar in exile. May our efforts never cease until Freedom, Democracy and Secularism prevail in our country.
Long live Iran
Long live Iranians
From the desk of the MPG in exile

zeupater

pinnlufaltio1976 wrote: »

..........but the concept of "the expert person" is very European , as is the pressure to do away with the UK "unsafe" three pin plug in favour of a Euro design? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug

Hi All

Looks like we have a spammer or troll coming on board using automated random posts to build a profile ....

Z

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi All

Looks like we have a spammer or troll coming on board using automated random posts to build a profile ....

Z

Kinda goes wrong, if the thread is old:-

pinnlufaltio1976 wrote: »

I have been told it will start on the 22/4/2007.

Epic fail, perhaps!

Mart.

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Kinda goes wrong, if the thread is old:-



Epic fail, perhaps!

Mart.

Hi

Yes, but you've missed the another profile doing exactly the same at the moment and have actually 'thanked' the post .....

.... must be using some relevance logic within some software, or simply preformatted cut/paste - I'd bet on the former ... 'll point the post out ...

Z

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Yes, but you've missed the another profile doing exactly the same at the moment and have actually 'thanked' the post .....

.... must be using some relevance logic within some software, or simply preformatted cut/paste - I'd bet on the former ... 'll point the post out ...

Z

Found it, about David Attenborough, and posted by Penrhyn originally about 7 years ago. I'll shift my thanks, since I did enjoy reading the link.

Epic fail squared, and straight back in my face.

Clever bit of spamming if it's automated.

Mart.

John_Pierpoint

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/search.php?searchid=143659877

I have heard of high frequency trading, probably a parasitic activity.
Now we have high frequency meaningless posting.

Filling a forum with junk is a much more effective attack than denial of service overload.

Who is going to try to explain to the powers that be?