Insurance at address #1, kept overnight at address #2 save 60% insurance - legal?

corbyboy

The thing that first struck me is why is an insurer basing their premium on the correspondence address rather than the address where the car actually is?

mikey72

2sides2everystory wrote: »

I'll throw a googly into the equation since I have just discovered it ... a Counterpart Drivers License has a section headed exactly like this:

Changes to your permanent address, please write clearly in the boxes using CAPITAL LETTERS IN BLACK INK. (See Section 5 overleaf)

And Section 5 overleaf says:

You must tell DVLA at once of any change to your permanent address, using the section provided overleaf. You need only notify a change of address in GB. An address outside of GB cannot be entered into your license. ...

Please remember also to change your address on any Vehicle Registration Documents (V5 or V5C) that you possess. ...

Failure to notify any changes as described above is a criminal offence, punishable by a fine up to £1000


Now one view as we have seen from some contributors to this thread might be "Told you so - permanent address has altered - OP should have notified the change", but the law itself does not I believe include the words "permanent address"; it merely stipulates that the "correct address" should be notified.

And even if you disagree with one side or the other of that, it makes no difference to the truthful answer to the question "At what address is the vehicle kept overnight?" which is a question that might be asked in slightly different ways e.g. the policy address is the default risk address, but an option is given to show a different overnight address, and it is an option which has not been missing from any motor insurance proposal I have completed in recent years.

Again though, it's not in any way enforcable in law.
It's not asking you to submit your residental address.
"permanent" means just that.
In this case, the op could easily be planning to move back to his parents, in a year or two, move to a different part of the uk, so it's not permanent.
Permanent for my daughter for example, is her parents house, although she technically has a different residental address, and would have to insure her car there.
Hence the law doesn't phrase it that way.

2sides2everystory

I happen to agree with everything in the last three posts.

DVLA is sloppy by not matching their documents with the word of the law - or maybe they think they are the law. They wouldn't be the first government agency to behave that way

But again, unless there is some regular collusion of "experts" (insurers and government agencies) the law associated with Road Vehicle Licensing and Driver Licensing surely cannot be manipulated in insurers' favour to punish this moneysaving windfall?

mikey72

2sides2everystory wrote: »

I happen to agree with everything in the last three posts.

DVLA is sloppy by not matching their documents with the word of the law - or maybe they think they are the law. They wouldn't be the first government agency to behave that way

But again, unless there is some regular collusion of "experts" (insurers and government agencies) the law associated with Road Vehicle Licensing and Driver Licensing surely cannot be manipulated in insurers' favour to punish this moneysaving windfall?

Not normally, the FSA and the FOS do a reasonable job of keeping them in check.

neilmcl

mikey72 wrote: »

Again though, it's not in any way enforcable in law.
It's not asking you to submit your residental address.
"permanent" means just that.
In this case, the op could easily be planning to move back to his parents, in a year or two, move to a different part of the uk, so it's not permanent.
Permanent for my daughter for example, is her parents house, although she technically has a different residental address, and would have to insure her car there.
Hence the law doesn't phrase it that way.

I think you're just splitting hairs. Permanent address is quite obviously your current, normal place of residence. Following your logic then there would be no such thing as a permanent address as who's to know where one would be residing in years to come.

Anyway, back to the OP. Mate I wish you well with this but personally I think you're on shaky ground and I wouldn't recommend it as a Moneysaving idea until it can at least be tested as valid.

mikey72

Maybe that's why the law doesn't state it?
It just uses a term that can be defined.

As before I know people with no permanent address.
They still have driving licences, insurance, and a correspondence address.

I'm curious, you've read my posts, what would you say my daughters permanent address was.
Where she lives most of the time now, (and mail quite often doesn't get to her, as it's often lost in the internal post there) or where she intends to live from summer onwards for maybe a year on and off, or her parents house where she'll be contactable for at least four years, and won't change?

darkh0rse

Well!

I've been away all weekend so just read the whole thread. Goodness me it has created quite a stir.

I must say thanks to all of you for your thoughts and personal experiences.

neilmcl wrote: »

And another point, has the OP answered all the other questions on the insurance form based on the address he gave, eg, number of cars at address, are you the homeowner, type of driving - ie, social, domestic and commuting, etc. Clearly if the OP had based the answers on his own residence then he his indeed making a misleading application.

I do actually agree here that this is perhaps a downfall of my scenario which could indeed leave me to provide "false" information.

Re: references to the DVLA permanent address etc. Whilst at uni, working away etc, I have always kept my license to be my parents address. But have always been contactable at parents address, of course. And I personally think that that is sufficient. Whether I am right or not, who knows. I have been stopped by police twice and nothing was said about the address.


Anyway, I also believe that there is a significant amount of challenging of whether it's legal or not, most thinking it is legal. And of course, the savings figure I am describing is £700, a HUGE chunk of money to save, which is why I want to pursue this. Simply put, without this saving, I cannot afford to own a car. For this reason I intend to speak to a few insurers and explicitly state the situation (although some say I don't need to but in the interests of getting a conclusive answer I shall do this). Only then once in writing from an insurer can this be answered! ... unless perhaps a moderator can escalate this query up to Mr MSE himself!

This may take me a few weeks or so of course but I shall most definitely update you all with the outcome.

Thanks again

Nearly_Old

Setting aside the DVLA requirements that have been well discussed on this and other posts at the end of the day motor insurance is a Contract between the Policyholder and the Insurer. The Contract is prepared by the Insurer and the Policyholder agrees to be bound by the Terms and Conditions of the Contract. One problem with comparison site is that they ask for the basic common data that generally all insurers ask for. However each insurer may/will have other more specific questions and possibly different phrasing for a question.

All well written contracts will have Defined Terms (thanks to mikey 72 for using this term as it got me thinking) and so I've a look at some of T&C's available on-line:

Direct Line
You must tell us immediately if any of the following details change:
• the address where you normally keep your car;

1.5 pages of defined terms "address" is not a defined term.

Admiral
1 page of defined terms "address" is not a defined term.

Aviva
2 pages of defined terms "address" is not a defined term.

Swiftcover
fail to correctly declare or update the information you have provided including:
your address where you live and your car is normally kept overnight;
Defined terms are highlighted in the text instead of in a separate schedule.

Swiftcover has clarified "address" as where you "live" and "normally kept overnight" but there is no reason why this cannot be different from the V5C address as long as truthful answers are given.

The other insurers appear to be "defining" the meaning of address by the actual phrasing of the questions in their individual proposal forms.

My overall thoughts are that achieving a potential saving from comparison site prices would be difficult for a non-standard case purely on the basis that the comparison sites only deal with the general cases. It would also need an insurance proposal form (the key component of the Contract) to ask all the relevant questions in the right way. However I'm not convinced that it's impossible as my view is that some insurers are lazy as they have a captive market as the insurance is a legal requirement. I hope that OP does find the right combination, gets the cheap price and lets us all know before the loophole is closed.

mikey72

Nearly_Old wrote: »

......................Swiftcover
fail to correctly declare or update the information you have provided including:
your address where you live and your car is normally kept overnight;
Defined terms are highlighted in the text instead of in a separate schedule.

Swiftcover has clarified "address" as where you "live" and "normally kept overnight" but there is no reason why this cannot be different from the V5C address as long as truthful answers are given.

Again thought, a student living away from home, leaving the car at home, two different addresses, or having the home address as a correspondence address, and taking the car away?
Sometimes where you live, and where you keep the car can be different.

This will never be a simple answer, as it's not really a definable term.

Nearly_Old

mikey72 wrote: »

Again thought, a student living away from home, leaving the car at home, two different addresses, or having the home address as a correspondence address, and taking the car away?
Sometimes where you live, and where you keep the car can be different.

This will never be a simple answer, as it's not really a definable term.

I agree and this is why I chose to say that Swiftcover "clarified" rather than "defined" the information that they are requesting. Also the words are not indentified in the Swiftcover T&C's as defined words. If the address where someone is living is different from where the car is kept overnight and the proposal form does not have an option to enter further details then you could not legally get insurance from Swiftcover.

As far as students go if a proposal form asks for a permanent address then this was usually the family home address as term time accomodation could be treated as a temporary address. This was the case when I was a student but it was (too) many years ago.