Insurance at address #1, kept overnight at address #2 save 60% insurance - legal?

2sides2everystory

Trebor16 wrote: »

It is abundantly clear you don't know what you are talking about.

Really? I once knew a little about the world of insurance. Has it now changed massively, do you think, as in tipped the whole business on its head ?

What really makes you think you know what you are talking about? You were as good as calling the OP a fraudster a few hours back.

The revelation which mikey72 has unearthed that suggests that even a delayed or neglected change of address of your drivers license won't amount to a hill of beans so long as you remain contactable via the address on their records is interesting, don't you think?

From reading around the subject, I would suggest that the position with notification of correct address is similar for the drivers and the vehicle licenses i.e. there are no hard and fast regulations or statutory requirements about it other than that incorrect addresses should be corrected forthwith. I have yet to discover the penalty for failing to ensure a registered keeper's address or driver's address is correct and more importantly have found no definition of "correct address". In the case of vehicle registered keeper address there is no requirement for the address used to be that at which either the vehicle or the keeper is most frequently located.

If an insurer wishes to issue a contract which enforces matching of addresses then they need to think carefully about their policy wording - any ambiguity in the wording will be construed against the insurer (contra proferentem principle).

Trebor16 wrote:

How would it be a valid correspondance address is the OP has admitted he doesn't live there, has his own property where he is on the electoral roll and is paying the utility bills and council tax there?

It's valid if it is good enough for receipt of notices, and the OP says it is. For goodness sakes, his Mum & Dad live there! The rest is totally irrelevant unless you are one of these people that treats all customers of financial services as fair game for proving some kind of fraud just when the customer needs their contract most, or perhaps you have an employer that scores address matching when assessing fraud or default risk before deciding on whether to do business. If you are, then I have news for you - fraud or default risk in motor insurance is not motor insurance risk, it is insurance industry (business) risk. By which I mean that performance of a motor insurance contract cannot be avoided on the strength that material information comes to light about the likelihood of the proposer being a fraudster due to mismatched addresses. The insurance contract is not a solicited guarantee of the integrity of the proposer. It is a motor insurance contract. That's all. If the insurer asks questions about correspondence address and vehicle garage address then the proposer does not have to second guess what misleading consequences the lack of further questions about mismatched addresses might cause in a particular insurer's rating engine.

Perhaps you are simply the willing child of a potential police state and the notion of multiple addresses for individual free citizens is an anathema? East Germany pre-1989 might have been right up your street or maybe even China today where you are stuck with one qualifying address when seeking access to government services irrespective of where you want to receive the service in your own country.

neilmcl wrote:

... it seems that OP must inform the DVLA that the car is kept at his address in Manchester and by not doing so he may be acting in a fraudulent way ...

You now say you hadn't said anyone was acting fraudulently. Why use the word 'fraudulently' at all in relation to the OP when you haven't even got the gumption to elicit properly from the information the possibility of even one single fraudulent act ? And surely, it is most unhelpful to run about pointing an accusatory finger when you haven't even explored properly the parameters of the subject you are talking about (e.g. the law associated with Vehicle Licensing and Driver Licensing and the law of insurance).

Do you know anything about contra proferentum in insurance, neil ?

I am sorry you find my side of this story not quite to your liking but I do think the OP has discovered something rather interesting which could benefit some savvy moneysavers until such time as insurers and comparison websites get their act together to seek out past errors in their rating and prevent future anomalies.

neilmcl

2sides2everystory wrote: »

You now say you hadn't said anyone was acting fraudulently. Why use the word 'fraudulently' at all in relation to the OP when you haven't even got the gumption to elicit properly from the information the possibility of even one single fraudulent act ? And surely, it is most unhelpful to run about pointing an accusatory finger when you haven't even explored properly the parameters of the subject you are talking about (e.g. the law associated with Vehicle Licensing and Driver Licensing and the law of insurance).

Do you know anything about contra proferentum in insurance, neil ?

Not directly no (it's contra proferentem btw), but I don't think when you're asked for your address in an insurance proposal this is in anyway amibiguous. Your address is just that, your permanent place of residence not someone elses, in this case the OP's mum & dads.

mikey72

neilmcl wrote: »

Not directly no (it's contra proferentem btw), but I don't think when you're asked for your address in an insurance proposal this is in anyway amibiguous. Your address is just that, your permanent place of residence not someone elses, in this case the OP's mum & dads.

Not according to post #23

2sides2everystory

neilmcl wrote: »

Not directly no (it's contra proferentem btw), ...

Forgive me, I am in no position to debate that as it is over 40 years since I won my last Latin prize, however, as for your ...

...but I don't think if you're asked for your address in an insurance proposal this is in anyway amibiguous. Your address is just that, your permanent place of residence not someone elses, in this case the OP's mum & dads.

... I have to take issue with you there. Have you ever completed one or more contact records in any database ? I mean in your mobile phone for example, when you added a contact to your phonebook, or perhaps to your Outlook Address book, or at work when you record details of prospects or actual customers ? Home Address, Office Address, Correspondence Address ? No ?

If you work in a shop and you give someone a refund then I accept, you will just ask for an address. You won't say "Is that where you keep your car" or even "Is that where you keep your credit card that I am about to re-credit?"

Well I can tell you in insurance it is quite common if not imperative for the business to solicit and record Risk Address in relation of course to property separate from Policy Correspondence Address.

Clearly in motor insurance almost every insurer wants to know where the vehicle is normally kept, and they ask specifically that. It is a main rating factor.

The OP knows that, but has given the insurer every opportunity to use it as a main rating factor simply by answering the one question "At what address is the vehicle normally kept overnight?"

The OP is not obliged to enter into a debate about how various addresses might be used in a police state versus how they are used in a polite free society.

You do see that, don't you?

neilmcl

mikey72 wrote: »

Not according to post #23

All 4 of the main comparison sites I've just looked at ask for your address, plain and simple, no mntion of correspondance addresses etc.

neilmcl

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Forgive me, I am in no position to debate that as it is over 40 years since I won my last Latin prize, however, as for your ...
... I have to take issue with you there. Have you ever completed one or more contact records in any database ? I mean in your mobile phone for example, when you added a contact to your phonebook, or perhaps to your Outlook Address book, or at work when you record details of prospects or actual customers ? Home Address, Office Address, Correspondence Address ? No ?

If you work in a shop and you give someone a refund then I accept, you will just ask for an address. You won't say "Is that where you keep your car" or even "Is that where you keep your credit card that I am about to re-credit?"

Well I can tell you in insurance it is quite common if not imperative for the business to solicit and record Risk Address in relation of course to property separate from Policy Correspondence Address.

Clearly in motor insurance almost every insurer wants to know where the vehicle is normally kept, and they ask specifically that. It is a main rating factor.

The OP knows that, but has given the insurer every opportunity to use it as a main rating factor simply by answering the one question "At what address is the vehicle normally kept overnight?"

The OP is not obliged to enter into a debate about how various addresses might be used in a police state versus how they are used in a polite free society.

You do see that, don't you?

I think we'll agree to disagree then because as far as I'm aware when an insurer ask for your address I think most reasonable people would think this is a totally unambiguous attempt at retrieving the place where you live! Particularly when they usually go on to ask questions relating to that specific household.

mikey72

neilmcl wrote: »

All 4 of the main comparison sites I've just looked at ask for your address, plain and simple, no mntion of correspondance addresses etc.

Tesco compare.
I've not gone through to the end, ask for your postcode and house number, and give one of the options from the list as "other".

Nearly_Old

neilmcl wrote: »

All 4 of the main comparison sites I've just looked at ask for your address, plain and simple, no mntion of correspondance addresses etc.

I've just gone and checked my stored quotes and Confused.com do not ask for "Your"/"Home" address or anything similar. The question is simply "Address"; i.e this can be simply defined as identifying buildings as the end points of a postal system. So as the OP has provided the DVLA with an "Address" he is merely using the same address. As pointed out in numerous previous posts the only rule is that individuals cannot use a PO Box address on the V5C.

Where is the car stored overnight? 2 parts to this question:
Part 1: on the road/driveway/garage/etc
Part 2: Here (i.e. the "Address") or Elsewhere - here the OP has declared the actual location where the car is located overnight.

I can think of 2 places where it might go wrong:
1) When the credit card billing address is enetered it will match the overnight address and not the first address entered. But there again it could go through OK as it does match one of the two addresses.

2) The actual policy documents have to be checked and any amendments required notified. The documents just may show "Home Address" followed by Address#1 in which case the OP would have to phone the insurers to get this changed. I've checked my Admiral policy and that just says "Address".

Can anyone let me know a very cheap address as I've got time to change the V5C's before July.

2sides2everystory

I'll throw a googly into the equation since I have just discovered it ... a Counterpart Drivers License has a section headed exactly like this:

Changes to your permanent address, please write clearly in the boxes using CAPITAL LETTERS IN BLACK INK. (See Section 5 overleaf)

And Section 5 overleaf says:

You must tell DVLA at once of any change to your permanent address, using the section provided overleaf. You need only notify a change of address in GB. An address outside of GB cannot be entered into your license. ...

Please remember also to change your address on any Vehicle Registration Documents (V5 or V5C) that you possess. ...

Failure to notify any changes as described above is a criminal offence, punishable by a fine up to £1000


Now one view as we have seen from some contributors to this thread might be "Told you so - permanent address has altered - OP should have notified the change", but the law itself does not I believe include the words "permanent address"; it merely stipulates that the "correct address" should be notified.

And even if you disagree with one side or the other of that, it makes no difference to the truthful answer to the question "At what address is the vehicle kept overnight?" which is a question that might be asked in slightly different ways e.g. the policy address is the default risk address, but an option is given to show a different overnight address, and it is an option which has not been missing from any motor insurance proposal I have completed in recent years.

Nearly_Old

2sides2everystory wrote: »

I'll throw a googly into the equation since I have just discovered it ... a Counterpart Drivers License has a section headed exactly like this:

Changes to your permanent address, please write clearly in the boxes using CAPITAL LETTERS IN BLACK INK. (See Section 5 overleaf)

And Section 5 overleaf says:

You must tell DVLA at once of any change to your permanent address, using the section provided overleaf. You need only notify a change of address in GB. An address outside of GB cannot be entered into your license. ...

Please remember also to change your address on any Vehicle Registration Documents (V5 or V5C) that you possess. ...

Interesting as I have just received a new V5C and for the Registered Keeper it requires a Name and Address. If the Name / Address is not correct then see section 12. On the front sheet and section 12 there are no references to Permanent Address. DVLA has (not for the first time) created an amibguity between various documents.

Typical of DVLA in that it appears that they believe that people will use their home/permament address on the V5C even though they clearly state that other addresses are acceptable; otherwise why say no PO Box numbers for non-commercial RK's?