Happy news? Leaseholds and pets

carefullycautious

A good rule of thumb is if you have communal entrances pets are usually a no no

If you have your own front door pets are ok to have.

princeofpounds

Sorry but that's not entirely correct. In addition to regulations in the lease, it can also allow further regulations to be made, therefore NOT in the lease, but as in my earlier post, they cannot conflict with that lease

IF the lease allows further regulations to be created, I agree, but if it is silent on the matter, then there is no basis for making arbitrary rules.

propertyman

princeofpounds wrote: »

IF the lease allows further regulations to be created, I agree, but if it is silent on the matter, then there is no basis for making arbitrary rules.

Sorry I am confused, isn't that what I said in post 7 and 11 ?

If the OP quotes the clauses in the lease relating to pets, it may be that consent is required, which allows a landlord to institute a policy and conditions with rules ( as recently considered by the Upper chamber).

princeofpounds

Sorry I am confused, isn't that what I said in post 7 and 11 ?

In #7 yes, but because it was before my post that you had replied to I did not see it.

In #11, the 'it' was slightly ambiguous in its grammatical function, which led me to a different interpretation of what you had said.

Richard_Webster

If the lease says "pets ok" regulations cannot say "pets, no"

I'm sure Propertyman would agree that it is very unlikely indeed that the lease would actually have wording in it saying that pets may be kept. Legal draftsmen do not normally list out what you can do, merely what you can't.

The lease may:

a) not mention pets at all; or
b) not mention pets but have a rule making power which allows the freeholder or management company to make rules for the proper management of the estate etc (and may go on to specify in general terms the kinds of things that such rules can deal with); or
c) have some restriction on pets, either imposing a total ban or allowing the freeholder to give consent in individual cases with a freedom to withdraw that consent.

In this case it seems clear that c) does not apply, but b) does.

It is then a matter of looking at the rule making power in the Lease to see if it could allow a ban on pets. For instance, there may be some general reference to regulations about things that could be a source of annoyance or disturbance to occupiers, and the managing agents may be seeking to justify the rule under that kind of wording using that.

Also whilst the solicitors would not have seen these rules initially it is fairly normal to ask the freeholders if any separate rules or regulations have been made and therefore I would have expected (possibly at a later stage) it to have emerged that rules had been made about pets. Unfortunately this is only when management enquiries sent to the seller's solicitors by the buyer's solicitors have been answered by the landlord/managing agent.

domcastro

There is no mention of pets in the lease. I can't see anything about the management company making extra regulations. The EA has written the following to me (which confuses me more)

I understand that this has put you off and upset you, however other people at the flats do have cats and dogs and its not a problem. You will never find a block of flats that say its ok to have pets, but only new build flats will actually do anything about this. Once you own the property there is absolutely nothing they can do about the pets.

I've sent their reply to my solicitors. Confused

ps. Have own entrance and no communal entrances

devotee

domcastro wrote: »

There is no mention of pets in the lease. I can't see anything about the management company making extra regulations. The EA has written the following to me (which confuses me more)

I understand that this has put you off and upset you, however other people at the flats do have cats and dogs and its not a problem. You will never find a block of flats that say its ok to have pets, but only new build flats will actually do anything about this. Once you own the property there is absolutely nothing they can do about the pets.

I've sent their reply to my solicitors. Confused

ps. Have own entrance and no communal entrances

They are right in a way, EA are.

We have a dog so we were looking for a garden flat and the agent knew about the dog. Offered on a flat, all going well until we got a lease draft where it said "no pets"!!! Threw a wobbly, the freeholder then gave us a permission so it's all good.
Since then we noticed another dog moonlighting at our neighbour's.

The solicitor told me that it's rare for MA to enforce anything! The most you'll get from them is a letter. Then maybe another letter. And that's it.

domcastro

The regulations are called "Estate Rules" - but it's a blooming big estate! I've just read minutes from a leasehold meeting in July 2010. People had complained about various things - one of which was "animals" (that's all that was written) The response from the management agency was that they sent out letters but with partial success and that they would inform people of "breach of lease" - but I wouldn't be breaching the lease I would be breaching the estate rules.

Richard_Webster

The regulations are called "Estate Rules"

To be on the safe side ask where the power to make these rules comes from. If they can't quote you chapter and verse of the rule making power from the lease wording then they can't enforce them. But be prepared for adverse reaction from some residents who think they can.

devotee

domcastro wrote: »

The regulations are called "Estate Rules" - but it's a blooming big estate! I've just read minutes from a leasehold meeting in July 2010. People had complained about various things - one of which was "animals" (that's all that was written) The response from the management agency was that they sent out letters but with partial success and that they would inform people of "breach of lease" - but I wouldn't be breaching the lease I would be breaching the estate rules.

You have nothing to worry about, really. The lease does not mention pets not being allowed so you would not be in breach of lease and that's the most important thing.

People will complain about many things, I complained about things to the managing agents of the block where I lived before (people chucking fag ends through the window and other rubbish), all the did, and all they say they could do is write a letter. Or put a poster to say "don't throw the rubbish in the garden area". And that's about it.