Daft Question. But its for a friend

rotoguys

nannytone wrote: »

of course the council will want to know!
if he has no visible sign of income, they will assume that he has independant means of supporting himself, which will lead them to ask ' where is this money coming from and how much'
they are dealing with public funds and have to ensure that it is only paid to people that qualify.

Well that is your opinion and you seem to be ready to accept that the council have a right to question somebody over how they manage their life.

Before I claimed Pension Credit, our outgoings were higher than our income. How did we manage? By cutting back and finding other ways of saving on things. Charitable donations of food, various charitable trusts to fund one off costs and water, electricty and gas debts. You would be surprised how you can manage on very little if you have to.

And if the council were to ask me how we manage, I would simply say with great difficulty, careful household management and charity.
If they suspected otherwise, then they would have to prove that. They can assume whatever they like. A valid claim HAS to be paid UNLESS they can PROVE otherwise!!
Why should I have to prove how we manage our lives?

rotoguys

Mojisola wrote: »

If he's been working for "many years" he must be older which could make it more difficult to get work.

There was a post on here last year from someone who had started out with your friend's attitude. A year down the line, he was still unemployed and had spent most of his savings and was regretting not taking the benefits available when he could.

I don't see how someone could be okay with taking benefits towards rent but not accept JSA?

Once he's got over the shock of the redundancy, encourage him to more pragmatic about JSA.

Maybe the poster has the same opinion of me about the jobcentre.

I claimed JSA by error a few years ago. The claim lasted all of 1 week before I cancelled it! I went back on ESA.
Just one visit to THAT place left me believing that it was the 'holding area' for potential Jeremy Kyle show appearances!

I don't know anyone that would want to go to a jobcentre out of choice. I have never been in such a depressing place before, with dubious characters hanging around outside the doorway.

I would sooner do ANYTHING than go there.

SkyWatcher_3

rotoguys wrote: »

Well that is your opinion and you seem to be ready to accept that the council have a right to question somebody over how they manage their life.

Before I claimed Pension Credit, our outgoings were higher than our income. How did we manage? By cutting back and finding other ways of saving on things. Charitable donations of food, various charitable trusts to fund one off costs and water, electricty and gas debts. You would be surprised how you can manage on very little if you have to.

And if the council were to ask me how we manage, I would simply say with great difficulty, careful household management and charity.
If they suspected otherwise, then they would have to prove that. They can assume whatever they like. A valid claim HAS to be paid UNLESS they can PROVE otherwise!!
Why should I have to prove how we manage our lives?

But a claim is only valid if a decision maker is satisfied that it is correct. They may ask for any information that is required to confirm this. If the information is not forthcoming then the claim is defective and is not paid. That's how it works.

rotoguys

SkyWatcher wrote: »

But a claim is only valid if a decision maker is satisfied that it is correct. They may ask for any information that is required to confirm this. If the information is not forthcoming then the claim is defective and is not paid. That's how it works.

I agree with you - but they would have to accept a statement of how I managed to live as stated above.

What would happen if it was the case that the claimant's income came from illegal activities - shoplifting, prostitution etc? Would you expect the claimant to certify that that is how they funded their lifestyle? And the next thing would be a visit from the police!

And if you think that that way of life does not exist, then you are not living in the real world.

nannytone_2

if someone was funding their lifestyle illegally, the chances are theyd also be claiming every benefit in the book at the same time!

if, by claiming housing benefit, you are asking for public funds, then you have to accept that you need to prove you are entitled to them.
if you receive no other benefits and no wage ... they have very right to ask you why you can manage without JSA/ESA/IS?Pension and yet still need HB.

you may or may not have a few million tucked under your matress ... the council have a duty to ask!

rotoguys

nannytone wrote: »

if someone was funding their lifestyle illegally, the chances are theyd also be claiming every benefit in the book at the same time!

if, by claiming housing benefit, you are asking for public funds, then you have to accept that you need to prove you are entitled to them.
if you receive no other benefits and no wage ... they have very right to ask you why you can manage without JSA/ESA/IS?Pension and yet still need HB.

you may or may not have a few million tucked under your matress ... the council have a duty to ask!

Of course they have a duty to ask, but for one, I certainly would not be prepared to 'convict' myself if that is how I was funding my living expenses. Unless I received written confirmation that any information regarding any illegal activity I may or may not be involved in to pay my way, would not be passed to anyone else, I am not required to provide any self incriminating information.

As it is, they would have no alternative but to accept what I say, that is unless they have just cause and reason to disbelieve my statement.

Even if someone had a few quid 'tucked away' in the mattress, do you honestly believe that someone is going to admit to it? If you do you are very niave.

It may arouse suspicion if the lifestyle did not match the known income, but that in itself is not enough to warrant removal, suspension or refusual of a benefit.
The council may decide to investigate further, but in my case, there would be absolutley no evidence to suggest that any type of fraud was involved-they would have to pay the benefit - there is a world of difference between suspicion and evidential proof.

SkyWatcher_3

rotoguys wrote: »

Of course they have a duty to ask, but for one, I certainly would not be prepared to 'convict' myself if that is how I was funding my living expenses. Unless I received written confirmation that any information regarding any illegal activity I may or may not be involved in to pay my way, would not be passed to anyone else, I am not required to provide any self incriminating information.

As it is, they would have no alternative but to accept what I say, that is unless they have just cause and reason to disbelieve my statement.

Even if someone had a few quid 'tucked away' in the mattress, do you honestly believe that someone is going to admit to it? If you do you are very niave.

It may arouse suspicion if the lifestyle did not match the known income, but that in itself is not enough to warrant removal, suspension or refusual of a benefit.
The council may decide to investigate further, but in my case, there would be absolutley no evidence to suggest that any type of fraud was involved-they would have to pay the benefit - there is a world of difference between suspicion and evidential proof.

Actually someone living on earnings from illegal/immoral activities will tend to claim another benefit (JSA etc) so as not to arouse suspicion and wouldn't make a claim based on having no income. By having a legitimate income they would avoid the risk of agencies asking questions that may reveal their illegal activities or running the risk of "interesting" a law enforcement agencies having not filed a tax return or drawn any benefits for a period of time.

If you've got money in bank accounts that have not been declared when making a claim then it will be detected through data matching. If it's in someone else's account then it's a matter of time until they nick it/get caught themselves/fall out with you and report it. Money Laundering regs make large sums of cash difficult to use so a million under the mattress isn't much good if you can't deposit it without the bank being required (by law) to ask a lot of questions and report it to the authorities.

rotoguys

SkyWatcher wrote: »

Actually someone living on earnings from illegal/immoral activities will tend to claim another benefit (JSA etc) so as not to arouse suspicion and wouldn't make a claim based on having no income. By having a legitimate income they would avoid the risk of agencies asking questions that may reveal their illegal activities or running the risk of "interesting" a law enforcement agencies having not filed a tax return or drawn any benefits for a period of time.

If you've got money in bank accounts that have not been declared when making a claim then it will be detected through data matching. If it's in someone else's account then it's a matter of time until they nick it/get caught themselves/fall out with you and report it. Money Laundering regs make large sums of cash difficult to use so a million under the mattress isn't much good if you can't deposit it without the bank being required (by law) to ask a lot of questions and report it to the authorities.

Where on earth are you going with that answer?

The argument is not what benefit a criminal may be claiming, but that the council HAVE to accept a statement made about how they are managing to live, that is unless they have proof that something is being hidden.

When I made a claim for Pension Credit, no one asked me how we were able to live with income of £275 a week and bonefide living costs (bills only and not including food costs or clothing) of over £350 a week for over 6 years! Maybe we do have a secret stash of cash that we have used to top up our income every week!

They might suspect we have but there is no evidence to prove that we have.

SkyWatcher_3

rotoguys wrote: »

Where on earth are you going with that answer?

The argument is not what benefit a criminal may be claiming, but that the council HAVE to accept a statement made about how they are managing to live, that is unless they have proof that something is being hidden.

When I made a claim for Pension Credit, no one asked me how we were able to live with income of £275 a week and bonefide living costs (bills only and not including food costs or clothing) of over £350 a week for over 6 years! Maybe we do have a secret stash of cash that we have used to top up our income every week!

They might suspect we have but there is no evidence to prove that we have.

You're the one that brought up earnings from illegal activity so I answered that point.

The fact is that if someone claims HB/CTB and claim to have no income then the authority will want further information to verify that. The process for claiming HB is very different from Pension Credit.

You and I debating this point is not answering the original question however so I suggest we leave it there.

flexrider

UPdate

Cheers for all the replys People my firend found Part time work 17 hours a week cleaning work to tie him over.so he cant claim so they told him. But thanks for the reply everyone.

Flex