Penalty points gone after 4 years, insurers ask for 5. Legal?

misthaufen01

Hi All,

I have a question about penalty points. I was caught speeding in August 2008. At the time I was in the process of moving house, and due to a combination of moving hassle and appropriate letters from the police not arriving when they should, I forgot about the fine. It all went to court and the first I heard of it again was when I got a £350 fine (plus costs) and 4 points in my absence from court, in May 2009. Major d'oh! on my part, as it was initially a standard SP30 for going around 8-9 MPH over the limit.

Anyway, I've researched and found that for totting-up purposes, points stay on your licence for 3 years, after which point the totals reset. The points are still recorded on your licence, and can be removed altogether after a further year, so after 4 years all record of the conviction can be deleted, as fas as the DVLA is concerned.

Why then, do insurers demand 5 years' history? As SP30 is a criminal conviction, surely after the 4 years or even 3, the conviction becomes spent, and you don't have to disclose the details of it to anyone? My £350 and 4 points instead of the usual £60 + 3 is having quite a negative effect on my insurance premiums, and I'd love to legally tell them I have no convictions next time round, or even the time after that. The only caveat in not disclosing this info is that you tick a box declaring that all the information you have provided is correct when you take out a policy. Not disclosing the conviction would be in breach of this, but are they in breach of the law in the first place in asking you for details of spent convictions the DVLA don't even have on record?

Some clarification would be appreciated if anyone knows a reliable source of info.

Cheers

LandyAndy

Insurers ask for information to determine their likely risk. That has no connection with whether your points are spent or not. They could ask for 10 years or since you started driving if they wanted to (and indeed they ask for longer periods for serious offences). They ask for 5 years info for accidents as well. Perhaps they think it is a reasonable period to make a judgement from.

misthaufen01

Thanks for your speedy reply.

Yes I understand that it's about risk, but having an accident, for example, is not in itself a criminal offence. It may be the result of committing one, but you generally don't get fined for 'having an accident'.

As an SP30 is a criminal conviction for an offence (exceeding legal speed limits), surely that's a completely different kettle of fish and would put it in a different category altogether?

Trebor16

Some endorsements stay on the licence for 11 years which is why they usually ask for details of endorsements within the last five.

misthaufen01

" Some endorsements stay on the licence for 11 years which is why they usually ask for details of endorsements within the last five."

Hmmm, not quite seeing your logic there. Surely a long conviction would be picked up in 3 years' history as well as 5..?

Trebor16

misthaufen01 wrote: »

" Some endorsements stay on the licence for 11 years which is why they usually ask for details of endorsements within the last five."

Hmmm, not quite seeing your logic there. Surely a long conviction would be picked up in 3 years' history as well as 5..?

Yes it would. But you asked why do insurers demand a history of any endorsements over a 5 year period and I provided a possible explanation.

Rover_Driver

A conviction where the sentence is a fine becomes 'spent' after 5 years - s.5 Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, 1974. Which is why the insurance companies ask for convictions in the last 5 years.

Some motoring offences carry points which are recorded on a licence and can lead to disqualification, those points are valid for 3 (or 10) years and stay on the licence for 4 (or 11) years.

There is no connection between the conviction being 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and points on a licence, they are completely different matters.

Norman_Castle

http://www.saleinsurance.co.uk/pdfs/criminal-convictions-insurance-offenders-act.pdf
The above says 5 years

misthaufen01

Ah, I see. So although the DVLA no longer recognize it, the conviction isn't legally spent until 5 years after the fact. Insurers just ask for the penalty points associated with the legal penalty (the fine).

Thanks for clearing that one up for me guys.

BoGoF

Thanfully you have understood the situation unlike this idiot on the insurance board

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3706895

Trebor16

How does it apply to endorseable fixed penalty notices? If you have accepted the offer of an FPN and paid it is it still classed as a conviction, given that you have not been before a court, under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act?