'To Let' sign put up outside house

Helen_J_3

The ironic thing is that with the recent scare from buglaries the LA sent information out with tips on how to keep your house safe and one of the cheap reccomendations was to get one of those 'Beware of the Dog' stickers and put it in the window so as to possibly avert the opportunist burglar. Then 2 days later they advertise to the world that the house is rented and so the chances are won't have scary dogs in it!

tbs624 wrote: »

It's wrong of the LA to not let you know in advance that they wished to call at the property, especially as drilling/use of ladders was involved.

Some areas have recognised the problems created for Ts by the year round use of these signs but I don't think it's covered under the Code of Best Practice in your area. However, if the LA is signed up to the Property Ombudsman's Code that states quite clearly that to let signs should be removed within 14 days of a new T taking up occupation. It's sheer laziness on the part of the LA.

Perhaps you and fellow students should try raising the matter via the Uni/CoL as they try to work with the local Council and the local LL association on matters affecting students as Ts.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear before. We moved into this house right at the beginning of September so it's a 12 month (well 11 months and something!) tenancy so the sign was not up from us moving in until this weekend.

pmlindyloo wrote: »

It is very strange that they have put a 'to let' sign up so early in your tenancy.

I would agree that it could be a security risk.

Have you spoken to the LA/LL? It could be a simple mistake.

My advice would be to take it down, telephone the LA and say you have taken it down and your reasons why. There is nothing in your tenancy agreement to say they can advertise your home from a certain time. (Is this correct?) The 'normal' time would be when you gave your notice/informed them you were leaving at the end of the fixed term/when they wrote and asked if you intended to renew your tenancy.

I would also ask them to get someone to collect it and then put it somewhere safe and out of sight until they do so.

I know if houses are let to student LA/LL like to know well in advance that they have new tenants but I think 8 months is far too long. Try to negoitiate with LA/LA when you would be willing to have the sign put up. After all they can still advertise for new tenants in other ways.

I don't think it's a mistake as they have put signs up on all their properties in the area which will be up for let from September (and maybe other months) onwards.

The agreement doesn't say anything about the LA being able to advertise that the property is up for let (which it isn't!). They did send us an email in December asking whether we wanted to continue the tenancy for another term later this year but we don't and so they said they would start advertising the property but there's a difference between putting pictures on their website and taking people round and having a permanent sign up outside!

8 months with this thing outside!

ILW wrote: »

Would that be to keep the students from escaping and wreaking havoc on the locals?

tbs624

Helen_J wrote: »

Sorry I didn't make myself clear before. We moved into this house right at the beginning of September so it's a 12 month (well 11 months and something!) tenancy so the sign was not up from us moving in until this weekend.

You're very diplomatic However, I recalled from your other thread that you had been in situ from the start of the current academic year.

My point was that if TPO say that LAs should take down signs within that 14 day slot they probably wouldn't find it acceptable for LA to use the rented property as a permanent year round advertising hoarding.

Depending on whether your tenancy agreement has anything to say about permitting viewings, you may want to make it clear to your LA that you would prefer them to arrange any viewings by potential new Ts for when one/all of you can be present in the property. You don't have to agree to numerous viewings scattered at odd times throughout the week, with the LA accessing by key in your absence.

Helen_J_3

tbs624 wrote: »

You're very diplomatic However, I recalled from your other thread that you had been in situ from the start of the current academic year.

My point was that if TPO say that LAs should take down signs within that 14 day slot they probably wouldn't find it acceptable for LA to use the rented property as a permanent year round advertising hoarding.

Depending on whether your tenancy agreement has anything to say about permitting viewings, you may want to make it clear to your LA that you would prefer them to arrange any viewings by potential new Ts for when one/all of you can be present in the property. You don't have to agree to numerous viewings scattered at odd times throughout the week, with the LA accessing by key in your absence.

Ahh right I see what you're saying now! The tenancy agreement we have is completely silent on viewings. We received an email from the LAs in December setting out the process for renewing tenancies if we wanted to and that if not they would be advertising the property and allowing viewings although nothing was said about putting the sign up! Also this was just an email so not exactly incorporated terms?

I want to take it down but I don't want them to accuse me of theft or anything else!

Helen_J_3

dimbo61 wrote: »

Totally agree with Helen_J and would not like a forest of TO LET signs on every other house.
A good Landlord should have alarm, security lighting and good double glazed doors with locks( 5 lever), well maintained fences and steel gates.

Ha. We have an alarm but we've never been given the code or been shown how it works (if it works!). We don't have any security lighting and the back door has glass panels which are single glazed (all the windows in the house are single glazed!). It took a month's worth of badgering the LA for them to come and put a decent lock on the front door as the one that was on when we arrived was totally insufficient.

BitterAndTwisted

Are you saying that as new tenants you didn't change the locks on the first day of your tenancy? In a student rental where there could be any number of ex-tenants and their mates down the pub with a key?

tbs624

Helen_J wrote: »

The tenancy agreement we have is completely silent on viewings. We received an email from the LAs in December setting out the process for renewing tenancies if we wanted to and that if not they would be advertising the property and allowing viewings although nothing was said about putting the sign up! Also this was just an email so not exactly incorporated terms?

If they have nothing jointly signed in the tenancy agreement or any other start of tenancy paperwork then all they can do is *ask* you to permit viewings - your AST affords you "exclusive occupation" for the duration of your tenancy.

The LA/LL has the implied right to inspect the property's condition, so that they comply with their legal repairing obligations, but that's entirely different from viewings accompanying potential new Ts.

Unfortunately, some LAs/LLs of student properties tend to assume that they can do as they please because the Ts are young and normally inexperienced renters

tbs624

Helen_J wrote: »

Ha. We have an alarm but we've never been given the code or been shown how it works (if it works!). We don't have any security lighting and the back door has glass panels which are single glazed (all the windows in the house are single glazed!). It took a month's worth of badgering the LA for them to come and put a decent lock on the front door as the one that was on when we arrived was totally insufficient.

You may want to consider getting the local crime prevention plod in to make suggestions which you could then wave at the LA/LL.

Ask the LA, in writing, for the instructions and operation code for that burglar alarm.

Here's what that local Code of Practice says on security issues. Yes ,some of it is only a recommendation but that with appropriate comment from the CPO may help the LL to focus on security. their own insurance cover would expect an alarm to be used by the Ts if one was fitted at the property.

I've never understood LLs who fail to provide even a basic PIR security light at the rear of their property - it's pretty cheap to buy & install one

Code of Practice requirements
• Locks must be fitted to all ground floor and any vulnerable first floor windows, such as those accessible from a flat roof, provided this does not contravene fire safety recommendations. Keys for the locks must be issued to tenants.

• All external doors, except for designated fire doors (normally the main front entrance door), must
be fitted with mortice bolts, top and bottom, to reinforce the existing lock. Modern, multi-locking UPVC doors would be acceptable without mortice bolts.

• Doors designated as final exit doors (usually the front door of small premises) must be fitted with a lock or locks that can be immediately opened from the inside when the premises are occupied,without the use of a key.

• External doors must be properly fitted and free from damage, have secure hinges and close fitting
into the frame.

• Where locks are fitted to bedroom doors in shared houses/houses in multiple occupation, they should be either the type that can be opened from the inside without the use of a removable key or a mortice type lock. Hasps/padlocks fitted to the outside of bedroom doors are not acceptable
due to the hazard of entrapment.

Recommendations
• If the property has a burglar alarm installed, details of alarm key holders must be made available to the tenants. City of York Council’s Environmental Protection Department holds a confidential alarm key holder database, on which landlords can apply to be listed in case of alarms being activated at night. Safer York recommends the installation of a burglar alarm.
• It is highly recommended that existing locks are replaced with five lever mortice locks to BS 3621. It is likely your building insurance will require this.
• It is recommended that locks complying to BS 8621 and BS EN12209 are used for doors with keyless egress.
• An optional, but highly recommended addition, is security lighting to cover vulnerable areas at the rear of the property. This can either be permanent, operated by a passive infra-red detector or dawn till dusk lighting.
• Hedges should be trimmed for security. Safer York recommends using defensive planting ie prickly
plants, to deter intruders.

nonnatus

When I was renting my previous place, I was having breakfast one fine morning when I was disturbed by a bit of hammering in the front garden. It was an estate agent rep, planting a "For Sale" sign!

I choked on my toast and had a small quarrel with the chap (not trying to shoot the messenger!) who told me I'd better take it up with my landlord.

The landlords were a couple and apparently each thought / assumed the other had come and told me they were having to sell the house :cool:. I was a very unhappy bunny.

Helen_J_3

tbs624 wrote: »

If they have nothing jointly signed in the tenancy agreement or any other start of tenancy paperwork then all they can do is *ask* you to permit viewings - your AST affords you "exclusive occupation" for the duration of your tenancy.

The LA/LL has the implied right to inspect the property's condition, so that they comply with their legal repairing obligations, but that's entirely different from viewings accompanying potential new Ts.

Unfortunately, some LAs/LLs of student properties tend to assume that they can do as they please because the Ts are young and normally inexperienced renters

Yes I think they're used to trying it on with their mainly student tenants. Unfortunately we're all lawyers-to-be so although we don't know the tricks of the trade as such we're happy to complain and send letters/emails it's all good practice

tbs624 wrote: »

You may want to consider getting the local crime prevention plod in to make suggestions which you could then wave at the LA/LL.

Ask the LA, in writing, for the instructions and operation code for that burglar alarm.

Here's what that local Code of Practice says on security issues. Yes ,some of it is only a recommendation but that with appropriate comment from the CPO may help the LL to focus on security. their own insurance cover would expect an alarm to be used by the Ts if one was fitted at the property.

I've never understood LLs who fail to provide even a basic PIR security light at the rear of their property - it's pretty cheap to buy & install one

Code of Practice requirements
• Locks must be fitted to all ground floor and any vulnerable first floor windows, such as those accessible from a flat roof, provided this does not contravene fire safety recommendations. Keys for the locks must be issued to tenants.

• All external doors, except for designated fire doors (normally the main front entrance door), must
be fitted with mortice bolts, top and bottom, to reinforce the existing lock. Modern, multi-locking UPVC doors would be acceptable without mortice bolts.

• Doors designated as final exit doors (usually the front door of small premises) must be fitted with a lock or locks that can be immediately opened from the inside when the premises are occupied,without the use of a key.

• External doors must be properly fitted and free from damage, have secure hinges and close fitting
into the frame.

• Where locks are fitted to bedroom doors in shared houses/houses in multiple occupation, they should be either the type that can be opened from the inside without the use of a removable key or a mortice type lock. Hasps/padlocks fitted to the outside of bedroom doors are not acceptable
due to the hazard of entrapment.

Recommendations
• If the property has a burglar alarm installed, details of alarm key holders must be made available to the tenants. City of York Council’s Environmental Protection Department holds a confidential alarm key holder database, on which landlords can apply to be listed in case of alarms being activated at night. Safer York recommends the installation of a burglar alarm.
• It is highly recommended that existing locks are replaced with five lever mortice locks to BS 3621. It is likely your building insurance will require this.
• It is recommended that locks complying to BS 8621 and BS EN12209 are used for doors with keyless egress.
• An optional, but highly recommended addition, is security lighting to cover vulnerable areas at the rear of the property. This can either be permanent, operated by a passive infra-red detector or dawn till dusk lighting.
• Hedges should be trimmed for security. Safer York recommends using defensive planting ie prickly
plants, to deter intruders.

Thanks for the help. The rooms in the house aren't fitted with their own locks although I asked for one for my room as it's on the ground floor :undecided but the landlord says no.

nonnatus wrote: »

When I was renting my previous place, I was having breakfast one fine morning when I was disturbed by a bit of hammering in the front garden. It was an estate agent rep, planting a "For Sale" sign!

I choked on my toast and had a small quarrel with the chap (not trying to shoot the messenger!) who told me I'd better take it up with my landlord.

The landlords were a couple and apparently each thought / assumed the other had come and told me they were having to sell the house :cool:. I was a very unhappy bunny.

How rude!

Helen_J_3

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Are you saying that as new tenants you didn't change the locks on the first day of your tenancy? In a student rental where there could be any number of ex-tenants and their mates down the pub with a key?

No :eek:

We do have an extra lock on the front door now though so they wouldn't have keys for that and the back gate has a new keypad lock so they'd either need to get that to reach the back door or climb over a few walls!