Advice for a PCN please!

Tripledrop

Hi all,

Today I received a PCN and don't think it's fair and I wanted to ask advice...

My wife worked a an office block in Birmingham City centre, in a pedestrian zone. The sign on the road says:

"Except taxis and for access to off-street premises at any time and for loading 4 - 11am"

I stopped on this road at 16:46 on Dec 23rd to pick up my wife who had had to visit her work to pick up some things (she was starting at a new company).

The enforcement officer walked by, asked me to open my window, and told me I couldn't park there. I told him I was just picking up my wife (she was literally walking out of the building behind him at the time!). He repeated himself, and so I pointed out my wife (who was now by the car) and repeated myself. Again he said I couldn't park there, so I just said "whatever" and did up my window.

He took offence to this, and as I was driving away, took pictures of my car.

Can I appeal this? Is this classed as access to premises? Or was I in the wrong?

Thanks!

Trebor16

This will be a good one to take across to www.pepipoo.com.

Whatever you do, don't ignore it though.

TrickyWicky

Tripledrop wrote: »

in a pedestrian zone. The sign on the road says:

"Except taxis and for access to off-street premises at any time and for loading 4 - 11am"

I stopped on this road at 16:46

It's a pedestrian zone. Whilst you've not told us if its a no access or no waiting sign I'm assuming it means that Access isn't permitted EXCEPT for access between 4am - 11am. THAT is why you have a PCN.

It must be said though, I used to be a CEO for two councils and the except <time> - <time> still confuses me so how the hell many motorists are supposed to understand this I'll never know. Most signs state the hours that the rule is in force but the except signs state the hours when it isn't - weird or what? When you think about it logically it makes sense but when glancing at it quickly it doesn't.

The point is, pedestrian zones are a no-no. You can try to appeal it but frankly I think you're better off just paying it as you'll have almost no grounds to appeal this on as much as I hate to say it. The wording on the signs whilst confusing follows DFT rules and despite being stupidly confusing it means the council may well win at an appeal (if they used more obvious wording then it wouldn't meet DFT rules and then you could win - the system is screwed!).

In the officers eyes (i speak from experience) there is a difference between seeing someone there ready to be picked up and pulling over and waiting for them to come out. I know its pretty trivial but you have to draw the line somewhere otherwise people end up pulling over for 5-10 minutes claiming to be 'picking up'.

As trebor says though, head over to pepipoo and see if they can come up with a loophole somehow but don't get your hopes up, everyone looks for a miracle loop hole and there isn't always one.

Tripledrop

Thanks for the replies, I have also posted there now... I understood the sign to mean access to premises whatever times, and loading only between those times?

TrickyWicky

Unless you can show us a photo of it (or a grab from google earth / maps) there isn't really much more we can say about the sign.

Coupon-mad

I dunno, I wouldn't be that quick to pay it. But pepipoo is the place to post along with photos of the signs and lines and PCN (all sides, all small-print).

Not sure if a sign with all that gubbins on it is allowed under the TRSGD (pepipoo will soon say!). And whether the other signs and lines are OK as well. And whether the Traffic Order is OK as well.

And whether boarding/alighting is an exemption there (as well as loading).

And whether the stuff the OP's wife had with her was bulky enough to be considered loading anyway (exempt).

And the OP hasn't completely clarified whether this was a postal PCN saying the CEO was prevented from serving a PCN (reg 10 PCN) or whether it was a Notice to owner pretending a PCN was served. And said PCN could be flawed like Hounslow windscreen ones and TFL postal ones are!

Tripledrop

sarahg1969

OP - have you kept the envelope? This is very important, bearing in mind it was allegedly posted on 3rd Jan, but you did not receive it until a week later.

I know that one council had a bad habit of posting the notices the day after the date of service shown on the PCN. That's a big no-no.

Tripledrop

No unfortunately I don't think so... Its a company car and my boss just left the letter my desk!

vax2002

The code is wrong, the images clearly show a moving vehicle, a moving vehicle is not a parked vehicle.

Coupon-mad

So can you link your pepipoo thread here so we can follow it? That's where the expert advice will mainly be. Have you told them in your pepipoo thread that it's a company car (very relevant and on this thread you have only just mentioned that now).

As a driver a PCN is not yours to appeal, it's your company's responsibility so be careful, you could end up paying more if your company Fleet Manager (or Lease Fleet Manager if it's a leased car) end up just paying it if it reaches the next stage. Depends whether the company is happy for you to respond to all the letters on their behalf - it remains their PCN though.