anything I can do?

orlao

pulliptears wrote: »

Brokenlilly, matters not a jot the width of footpath or position of child etc, it boils down to the fact that your dog was off lead in a public area. Parent doesn't know your dog, parent doesn't know whether he's the most placid thing in the world or not.

Situations like this can be avoided by simply keeping the dog on a lead in public.

My bolding.

Aren't dog walkers members of the public too? Some of them might even be parents too so would that give them 'double rights' in public open spaces?

pulliptears

zaksmum wrote: »

But a dog has to have some off lead time, surely? No matter where you are you can't guarantee a child won't materialise from somewhere. If a parent has such a problem with dogs why doesn't he take the child where dogs are not allowed?

Off lead time should be on private land if you cannot guarantee your animal will not approach another animal or child. Why should the parent take the child elsewhere because one person cannot put a large dog on a lead?

Hardupandfedup wrote: »

So Dogs are no longer allowed to have a free run?

Yes you should have full control of your dog, but parents should also have control of their children and not allow them to wander.
I would not be happy if someone kicked my dog and if your dog is injured I would speak to the police, however unless you have witnesses who will say your dog did nothing wrong, be prepard for the police to take the childs fathers side.
This country is beginning to get like America whare dogs can only run in dog parks.

Full control of the child? Seriously? Is the child likely to attack the dog? Or is it more likely that the parent may just panic because a strange, large dog just came bounding up to their child, a child who has every right to be walking along a public footpath freely.

krlyr wrote: »

If the law ever changes to state dogs must be on lead in public areas, I'll tell people to abide by it, but OP can't be faulted for having a friendly dog off-lead in an area that doesn't forbid it. You could equally argue that parents should have their child under control/on a kiddy harness because dog owners don't know that the kid respects animals - I'm not going to run over and push a child over for approaching my dog because I feel it *might* pull my dog's ears.

OP, you'll struggle with this kind of thing because of the breed, I have a GSD and a Rottie x GSD and get similar. All you can do is ensure that you do the best you can - have a well-trained, well socialised dog that's under control and being a great ambassador for it's breed. I would report this man to the local police but probably not expect too much to be done - probably a civil case of damage to your "property" if the dog was to require vet treatment.

The bane of my life is owners of 'friendly off lead' dogs who seem to think its perfectly acceptable for their animals to come charging over to me and my on lead animal, its rude and aside from anything else its dangerous as OP has found. In this case the dog was kicked. Something that would have been easily avoided if, as I said earlier, the dog had been under control.

pulliptears

orlao wrote: »

My bolding.

Aren't dog walkers members of the public too? Some of them might even be parents too so would that give them 'double rights' in public open spaces?

Why should I be forced to hold back my child, or rein my child because someone cant control their dog. Why should I be the one to have to panic and grab my child up in the air because I dont know whether the animal heading towards it is friendly or not?

I love animals, I have 2 dogs of my own, but in the pecking order I'm afraid children rank much higher.

Croatoan

brokenlily wrote: »

In response to those who say keep your dog under better control, the footpath was fairly narrow, so even if my dog had just been trotting along, he would have had to pass the child fairly close by. The child was wandering away from his parents as well, towards the railings near the water where there were ducks, also where the dog was interested in, so my response to them would be if you don't want dogs near your child, keep the child near you, hold their hand, or pick them up if a dog comes near. The child seemed unfazed by it, but the father came running over shouting and kicked out so hard my dog yelped and then laid down and froze. Were he a nasty aggressive dog he might well have counter attacked so I guess everyone's lucky he's very placid.

To those who have said my dog was not under control there were no signs saying dogs had to be on the lead, and there were so many other dogs off the lead there, well then every single owner using that path was an irresponsible owner.

If they don't have instant recall, then yes, they were all irresponsible owners.
If your dog had attacked then it would have been put down even though it was provoked. I don't see any need to put a dog at such risk when a dog is, presumably, quite happy walking on a lead. Personally speaking if I was walking along a narrow path with other people and dogs walking about me, I'd have my dog on a very short lead.
Children are allowed to wander free because the only risk they pose is to themselves - and, like it or not, because they are human beings they have rights in the eyes of the law that dogs simply don't have. A dog doesn't have to be nasty, just excited, over-friendly or clumsy can be enough to hurt someone, and the fact he's never bitten or hurt anyone before will likely be no defence.

pulliptears

Genuine question for OP

I do concur that an incredibly well trained dog with instant recall who doesn't approach passing children/animals etc is fine off lead, however, you say the childs father started to shout, I'm assuming you called your dog at that point and it didn't return instantly?

brokenlily

"Genuine question for OP

I do concur that an incredibly well trained dog with instant recall who doesn't approach passing children/animals etc is fine off lead, however, you say the childs father started to shout, I'm assuming you called your dog at that point and it didn't return instantly"

The dog was kicked AFTER he had turned round to come back after being called. I honestly don't know what more I could have done. He does have a good instant recall, unless he's seen a squirrel, that's his only Achilles heel, but he's so slow and clumsy he'd never keep up with one.

If I see another dog on a lead, I put my dog on a lead. If I see a kiddies' play area, he goes on the lead. I try to be a considerate dog owner, but I cannot accept that he should not be allowed to wander free on a country footpath with no livestock or anything, and that it should be acceptable for someone to hurt him when he has done no harm. But, I take the point of those who say it will be more hassle than it's worth to pursue anything, and I see you're probably right - the father will more than likely think he was right to lash out.

Incidentally, some posters have said "bounding up to a child" - nowhere did I say he was bounding! He was trotting, at most, not running full pelt. He generally does not run up to humans he does not know - he was going towards the ducks. I take the point that the parents did not know that, and perhaps they have had bad experiences with that breed of dog before. But then, some people are bad people, would you kick a person who went near your child in case they might be harmful? I doubt it!

elliesmemory1

Full control of the child? Seriously? Is the child likely to attack the dog? Or is it more likely that the parent may just panic because a strange, large dog just came bounding up to their child, a child who has every right to be walking along a public footpath freely.


Quote:

Yes seriously, No the child is not going to attack the dog, but it was near water, is that a safe thing to allow a child to wander near?
Does a dog and owner not have a right to walk along a public footpath?

peachyprice

brokenlily wrote: »

To those who have said my dog was not under control there were no signs saying dogs had to be on the lead,

You shouldn't need a sign, it's common sense.

A public path by a river is not there purely for dog walkers, it for everyone to enjoy. If you want to take your dog out off-lead take him somewhere more appropriate.

pulliptears

Hardupandfedup wrote: »

Full control of the child? Seriously? Is the child likely to attack the dog? Or is it more likely that the parent may just panic because a strange, large dog just came bounding up to their child, a child who has every right to be walking along a public footpath freely.


Quote:

Yes seriously, No the child is not going to attack the dog, but it was near water, is that a safe thing to allow a child to wander near?
Does a dog and owner not have a right to walk along a public footpath?

I'm not saying dog and owner dont have the right to walk along a footpath, I am saying that it is a situation where more often than not you will meet parents with children, and often the parent will panic when faced with a large dog.

Surely its infinitely more sensible to keep the dog on a lead unless in a big open area where you can see people coming well in advance and call the dog back before its kicked by an over reacting parent?

orlao

pulliptears wrote: »

Why should I be forced to hold back my child, or rein my child because someone cant control their dog. Why should I be the one to have to panic and grab my child up in the air because I dont know whether the animal heading towards it is friendly or not?

I love animals, I have 2 dogs of my own, but in the pecking order I'm afraid children rank much higher.

I'm not talking about 'bounding out of control' dogs, I'm probably less tolerant than most about dogs like that. I don't subscribe to the school of:
Dogs will be dogs
They're just playing/only being friendly/want to say hello yada yada and all the other excuses for dogs that don't recall.

It is perfectly possible, hard work but possible that you can have a dog that can be under control even when off lead. The two aren't incompatible and as such, it is reasonable for both children and dogs to share the same public space. As I read the OP her dog was mooching along minding his own business and the father approached the dog and booted him - that just isn't acceptable behaviour from anybody. The dog didn't have a chance to recall before he was hurt in this case.

By all means castigate the people who let their dogs run riot, there is no excuse for that - I would happily see them get fined or barred from public open spaces but please don't tar all owners with the same brush. My dogs are no danger to any child because they don't get given the opportunity to be so. I'm not unusual, most dog owners are responsible and wouldn't wish their pets that they love dearly to cause problems for anybody else so why try and restrict us to the extent that on lead is the only walks that 90%+ will get? Private land for off lead walking is a lovely concept that is unavailable to all but the most privileged!

Back to my original point that dog owners are also members of the public who should be just as entitled to use the amenities available as anybody else - we really have to get past this perception that all dogs are instant child killers, it's not doing anybody any favours. A generation (at least) of children who have only bad perceptions of dogs because their parents over react before a dog gets within 10m, parents with their nerves on edge because they think every dog they see is going to savage their kid, dog owners feeling very defensive and meanwhile all these people who will miss out on the positive opportunities and experiences that being around dogs can bring. And the vicious cycle continues...

Do you grab or rein your child on a pavement? Or carry them over the road? Of course you do, it's part of keeping them safe in traffic. When on a shared with other users footpath it's not solely for the use of you and yours so you'd still be close to your child and a dog passing by shouldn't be a reason to panic. Note, I'm not talking about a dog coming up to you, just a dog mooching along past you. Is that really such a problem? A big enough one to severely restrict another large sector of the community because of the behaviour of a small minority? If it is then how do people cope with walking along a pavement and the fear of dangerous drivers as they are statistically much more of a danger to the average person than a random dog?