Help - first time buyer - ready to exchange and trustee in bankruptcy hike the price

Professional

Sorry missed your previous post Bubbles. Ignore some of what I said, I think silvercar is on the right track, the creditors must think they can get more for the property then what your offering.

I would say you should do some sums work out if it's worth increasing your offer and if in doubt walk away. There's plenty of good deals on the market you might just have to wait a bit longer. You don't want to get dragged into a long protracted and complicated mess which is what this is turning into.

silvercar

Professional wrote:

In terms of the main property. I would say it's delay tactics. The bankrupt lady doesn't benefit from a sale, regardless of the price. She's just being difficult. She's no longer paying for the property be it mortgage or any other costs, so it's a free house practically. AgreeAfter a certain amount of time her debts will be written off.Now, written off from the date of bankruptcy. After this period if the home is not sold for 3 years there's a possibility she could hang on to it.This only applies to a residential home that the bankrupt is living in, it does not apply to a BTL. So unless the bankrupt had moved back when made bankrupt it won't apply Obviously this means several years without a sale which is unlikely and its her clutching on straws but in her position she has nothing to lose. I doubt an increased offer will work, but i'd suggest its worth a try.3 years without the mortgage being paid? It will be repossessed soon. Put 3k on it and put the ball back into her court if she rejects it again then she could get in trouble if she has been ordered by a court to sell the property.A court can't force her to sign liability and the lender won't proceed without her signature. Stalemate If she accepts you've still got a good deal right? (that's your call based on the work that needs doing, do some sums!).I would be making an offer to the lender, unless you know that the extra amount will mean no shortfall.

If she rejects and gets into trouble it could be a long process so i'd suggest you get searching again, if your mortgage runs out end of Jan i'd suggest you talk to your bank and make them aware of your situation and bad luck. This might help them understand why you might be re-applying for a mortgage after Jan (if they've approved you once, they will do it again).Good advice.

My comments in red.

klolav

bouncing_bubbles wrote: »

Ok just had am email of EA - MRS xxxx has sought legal advice and will not complete as they do not want to be liable for the shortfall.

when questioned further
I would imagine that the XXXXX want to wash their hands of it.

If you pull out a repossession would be inevitable. It would then be valued by three estate agents in due course and more than likely go back on the market for £155,000 ish. My bet is the property would potentially resell at about the £150,000 mark and in fact we have a few buyers who would gladly pay that for it.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Now i suspect this is 'sales talk' - if they were that interested they would have offered the extra money in July/Aug. I have asked for clarity.

What i dont understand is why they accepted my offer? or tell me before Christmas?

I feel really sorry for you...we sold our house in August and still haven't exchanged due to delay after delay from the buyers. So I know how frustrating and stressful it is buying/selling a house.
I wish you the best of luck whichever way you decide to play it. They have basically pulled out in effect....but if you want the house could you meet the extra £3k, which they are insinuating they would accept? I don't think I would give them any more but is that a better option than starting again?? Doesn't make sense & very confusing!
Good luck!

bouncing_bubbles

Hi

Silvercar:
Tennants moved out in July - so no money comingin since then. SO the bankrupt lady could be trying to delay until april.

Tbf ive been on the phone to easte agent every day as has my mother also been emailing regulary and contacting trustee - due to my profession i am very good at obtaining info i possibly shouldnt have.

What I suspect has happened is that the lender has refused to allow the sale to proceed unless the seller signs acknowledging liability for the shortfall. The seller has been advised not to do so. This is because signing now would mean they become liable, not signing means that the shortfall falls into the bankruptcy - even though the sale is after the bankruptcy, the shortfall isn't (or not deemed to be). Does is there anyway this can go through without seller signing the shortfall questionnaire?

Ive tried contact lender but cant seem to get through - the property has a mortgage and a secured loan on it (that I know of).

Professional: Thnks thats my view on the stuff - my dads house is fiull of my stuff as is my mums, i have started storing things where I keep my horses.

Thanks I will keep trying - if its meant to be it will be.

Silvercar:
Sorry to sound thick - but how can they not have known? isnt it the trustees job to know the figs and sort the estate out?

Thanks for explaining.

klolav - i honsetly dont understand why its so complex, if you want a hiuse you out an offre in, if seller thinks its fair they except then you do the checks n exchange arggggggggggghhhhhhhhh

bouncing_bubbles

so have had below update from EA.

They will not sign as they assume they will become liable for the shortfall.

Repossessed properties are the easiest houses to sell as the asking prices are so low...remembering that the property was on the market for £169,950 or maybe £164,950 when your offer was accepted. The potential buyers are new buyers and they will not have viewed as XXXXXXX has been off the market since you agreed to buy it. In my opinion they would possibly be prepared to pay in the region of £150,000. I have since chased again and the redemption figure in November was a little over £3200 and we await an upto date figure as of today.

i asked for clarity -
But repo houses can be out bided at any time until exchange of contacts – lot of people don’t like the risk and the house needs work.

I cant help but wonder why this didn’t come to light earlier in the process – surly if we knew in Oct the figs would have been lower? It would all have been paid and I’d be off your backs. Have they taken in to account your fees etc? Do you know when we will receive figures as the last lot took an age to come through?.

How do you know they are interested in the property if they haven’t seen it?


and recieved:

I fully understand that this has been an extremely frustrating process!!

To put it clearer which might help.....if was a repo we would have had to advertise the price agreed and you would have more than likely been outbid but as it stands you are in the driving seat with no competition from other buyers.

The redemption figure takes into account all fees from all sides and will be in the region of £3500 ish. When I spoke with xxxx earlier he said that it will take between 24 and 48 hours from yesterday morning so they should be imminent.

On your last point and not to come across as too arrogant but a lot of houses we sell we kind of have sold before the buyer even views it, when you have done this job for nearly a decade and when you get to know your buyers it is all down to instinct. We have a couple of buyers offering nearly £160,000 for other three beds which aren’t much better than Julian who would love to get their teeth into xxxxxxx but as it stands the property is yours.

SO I responded:

Thanks for the update, I look forward to receiving conformation of the figures. I understand but like you said it is extremely frustrating especially now as another property has come up that I feel is as equally as well suited to my requirements. However, I trust you have this in hand and appreciate that the property is mine and hope we can move forward soon.

Im not sure how truthful the EA is being - Im young and blonde and can be percieved as a scatty blonde - which suits me most of the time as I generally get away with alot people generally get their gaurd down and I can then negioate very well. But I feel the sellers maybe trying to push their luck. They may well have other interested parties but im sceptial.

silvercar

Does is there anyway this can go through without seller signing the shortfall questionnaire?

Only if the lender agrees to remove the charge or the mortgage is cleared completely.

Ive tried contact lender but cant seem to get through - the property has a mortgage and a secured loan on it (that I know of).

Another can of worms. There are now 2 lenders (the mortgage and the secured loan) so 2 lenders have to agree a sale figure. Plus the trustee. Explains why it is taking so long.

I have since chased again and the redemption figure in November was a little over £3200 and we await an upto date figure as of today.

What does this £3200 relate to? The amount left owing the mortgage and secured loan and solicitors fees and estate agent fees?

You can roughly calculate what the new redemption would be. Assume no mortgage has been paid, an interest rate of say 4% on £150000 would be £500 every time the mortgage isn't paid. If the difference really is only £3200, you can understand the seller trying to get more.

BitterAndTwisted

Angel, you appear to have inadvertently included the address of the property in your last post. I've done a casual search and believe that I have identified it. There is only one in the county where you claim to be. I'm going to pop down, find out who the agent is and make an offer.

silvercar

The more I think about this the more I worry. In your shoes I would be asking my solicitor about the possibility of exchanging and completing at the same time. Ask your solicitor to consider what the risk would be of exchanging and then someone preventing completion. These secured loan holders can be slippery and can wield far more power than their measly loans merit.

There is a phrase and I've no legal background so can't recall it, but what your solicitor needs to do is to ask the seller's solicitor to guarantee the completion. That means that the other solicitor is prepared to put his head on the block for completion to happen.

bouncing_bubbles

Hi

Silvercar,
how does one get the lender to remove the charge?
As far as im aware the £3200 includes everything, shortfall on mortgage, solictors fees, agents fees etc. However due to all teh delays and lack of info i suspect something will have been forgotten.
More thoughts exactly re redemption. How can they guesstimate it? At one stage i was informed it was a 20k shortfall. we agrred price in Aug so if it only goes up by £500 each time its not paid, 2500 of it is caused by trustees slackness!!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I could have given them the s*ding money in Aug.

I signed my contract in Nov and transfered deposit to solictor, as they called me n said we were ready to exchange. What happens if we exchange and then get prevented from compleation?

thanks Bitterandtwisted - yor more than welcome to have a look

Thrugelmir

silvercar wrote: »

There is a phrase and I've no legal background so can't recall it, but what your solicitor needs to do is to ask the seller's solicitor to guarantee the completion. That means that the other solicitor is prepared to put his head on the block for completion to happen.

The seller's solicitor also represents the interests of the charge holders. So to effect completion the solicitor will need to ensure that sufficient funds will be available to discharge these. In addition sufficient funds will be required to clear any fees and charges.

The vendor obviously cannot commit to exchange due to a shortfall in funds on completion.