Benefit fraud - do i need a lawyer?

tomjonesrules

Dawneybabe wrote: »

As stated earlier speak to CAB or a local law centre who will be able to give you free advice and are also used to dealing with these types of issues and representing clients at court/tribunals

CAB and law centres very rarely offer representation for criminal prosecutions, it is outside their remit (they have no funding for it).

sulkisu

As you still have the money, paying it back immediately in one lump sum, instead of by direct debit over a period of time, might help with mitigation.

rainbowfairydust

You say you have not used the money for any purpose? If this is the case do you still have the majority? If so then offer it back as a lump sum. Might go some way as to this not being taken further

I am not trying to be horrible or put you down so i apologise if this post comes across that way? Its not meant too..

[Deleted User]

i personally would have thought that a lawyer might put your case across better in court than you could yourself,it need not be massively expensive an hours interview now then half a day of his time on the day.money well spent IMHO

x4xy

Thank you all for all your replies, I greatly appreciate your efforts. My local CAB only gave me free general advice. They said they do no represent people for whatever reason - this is what my local Cab said and gave me a list of local lawyers. The lawyer I am talking about was on of the list. He gave me half hour free. But if he takes my case on that's how much he said he will charge. My issue is not in paying back - I am already doing so and I will probably pay all back before the court case... The court papers say I made a false representation on a claim form "knowingly". This "knowingly" is what I do not accept. I have described why in the original OP and that I am paying back in full the overpayment. Now the question is what is it a lawyer can do to help me that I cannot do myself, as this lawyer suggested to me to plead guilty?

Happychappy

Plead not guilty, just answer the questions posed by the prosecution and let the court decide.

Unfortunately few fraudsters and cheats get sent down, so even if found guilty, you should be fine and may be able to settle on 50p a week from your benefits, just tell the court as to why you made the statement you did in the first place when you applied for your hand out, and what it is about the case against you which is wrong, you don't need a lawyer to do this? Regarding what you used the money for? it really is of little importance, you claimed it, received it, spent it. Let us know how it goes, always interested.

cattie

It's such a pity it got so far as court. If only you had had some representation or written medical evidence at the IUC of your mental health issues, it is unlikely that the DWP would have decided to take you to court & only expected a repayment plan to repay all of the monies. Are you under a Local Community Mental Health Service team? If so, help there should have been your first port of call. If you are not under the LCMHST then try contacting MIND. They have advisors & advocates who can often help out in such cases & may even be able to come along to court with you.

Definitely not advice, but Paraxotine is a well known drug for actually making depression worse & giving suicidal tendencies in some cases, as I know to my cost. Do some internet research as possibly there will be something there you can use in your defence.

Also, even contact your local MP or councillor for support, perhaps a written plea on your behalf. You made a mistake due to your mental health, which you are not disputing. You have already put in plans to repay the money, so really there is nothing to be gained by giving you any kind of penalty. Gather as much support & evidence as you can from anybody you feel will help you. What about your GP? Is he/she supportive?

Good luck anyway & keep us informed here on how things go.

Yuki60

Happychappy wrote: »

Unfortunately few fraudsters and cheats get sent down, so even if found guilty, you should be fine and may be able to settle on 50p a week from your benefits,.

Are you missing a sensitivity chip or just genuinely under the belief that sarcasm makes you look clever? The words sarcastic little bully come to mind



OP ignore this post. Do not plead not guilty if you know they can prove you are guilty, it just gets the court annoyed and they will be harsher on you.I suspect by Mr sarcasm's post that he is well aware of this and is hoping you'll be in more trouble. That is the same in any criminal case. If you've already admitted it all in the IUC it will make you look like a liar. What you can hope for is some sympathy in regard to your mental health problems and your motives for failing to declare. Secondly, if you're on benefits or a low income you can get legal aid and won't have to pay a solicitor. To be honest though even if you paid it all back today it'll make little difference. It won't stop them taking you to court because its a huge amount. You have to pay it back regardless and that fact has nothing to do with the prosecution or court. DWP always make you start paying the money back before you even go to court.

x4xy wrote: »

i admitted in the iuc that there was an overpayment - but the big problem seem to be they will want to prove that I acted dishonestly while this is not the case as I never used it for any purpose whatsoever.

I have to admit that i don't understand what you mean by this? Whether you spent it or not is beside the point in the eyes of the law. The dishonesty comes from failing to tell benefits that you had started work or were earning money.If they can prove that you knew it was wrong, that you knew you shouldn't be working and claiming benefits and that you deliberately did not tell them so that you could continue to claim benefits on top of the other money that's basically all they need. This would have come up in the interview repeatedly as its the one thing they want you to admit, that you knew you should have declared all income right away.

Also on a final note i presume the overpayment is because you worked and claimed but you say for years you were too depressed to even wash etc so not sure how you could have worked.

It is very worrying I know but the chance of you going to prison are very low I promise. You'll probably get a telling off, small fine and some community service. Good luck hun x

tomjonesrules

Yuki60 wrote: »

Are you missing a sensitivity chip or just genuinely under the belief that sarcasm makes you look clever? The words sarcastic little bully come to mind



OP ignore this post. Do not plead not guilty if you know they can prove you are guilty, it just gets the court annoyed and they will be harsher on you.I suspect by Mr sarcasm's post that he is well aware of this and is hoping you'll be in more trouble. That is the same in any criminal case. If you've already admitted it all in the IUC it will make you look like a liar. What you can hope for is some sympathy in regard to your mental health problems and your motives for failing to declare. Secondly, if you're on benefits or a low income you can get legal aid and won't have to pay a solicitor. To be honest though even if you paid it all back today it'll make little difference. It won't stop them taking you to court because its a huge amount. You have to pay it back regardless and that fact has nothing to do with the prosecution or court. DWP always make you start paying the money back before you even go to court.




I have to admit that i don't understand what you mean by this? Whether you spent it or not is beside the point in the eyes of the law. The dishonesty comes from failing to tell benefits that you had started work or were earning money.If they can prove that you knew it was wrong, that you knew you shouldn't be working and claiming benefits and that you deliberately did not tell them so that you could continue to claim benefits on top of the other money that's basically all they need. This would have come up in the interview repeatedly as its the one thing they want you to admit, that you knew you should have declared all income right away.

Also on a final note i presume the overpayment is because you worked and claimed but you say for years you were too depressed to even wash etc so not sure how you could have worked.

It is very worrying I know but the chance of you going to prison are very low I promise. You'll probably get a telling off, small fine and some community service. Good luck hun x

Some really irresponsible "advice" here. You do not have nearly enough information to state how they should plead, nor what the likely outcome will be.

OP, I asked earlier whether you were eligible for IS when you initially applied, or at the time of any reviews. This is key to the question of intent.

I have also explained why CAB cannot support you through the criminal prosecution. As you have had advice from a solicitor, I would suggest that they know far more about the case than we do, and as such you should follow their advice.

ceecee1

Without knowing any of the facts......you say that one of the charges is a false representation on a claim form.

To be honest that is very cut and dried. You received an inheritance, whenever that was. It sounds as if some time after you received the money you had to complete a claim form or a review form. Questions on all forms for means tested benefits ask - do you have savings, do you have any investments, how much do you have in your bank account.

To be charged with knowingly making a false representation sounds as if you did not answer that question correctly.

It is in your best interest to have a solicitor to speak for you, even the Duty solicitor on the day of the hearing. He/she will be well practised at putting forward your mitigation, ie, that you take medication, that you suffer from an illness etc