Help - Driving Without Insurance

nickmack

avondale wrote:

in terms of fines i can honestly say i've been to court numerous times and the fines for no insurance are pathetic. I've never ever had somebody fined more than a £100, it must have cost the cps and police more to prosecute the defendant than the fine imposed.

I agree the fines are unlikely to get anywhere near to covering costs.

According the Association of British Insurers, the average fine for Driving without Insurance is £150, so your experiences seem to be typical.

I sympathise with the OP in this case, as it seems like a genuine mistake, so the magistrate should go easy with the fine.

Mr_Grumpy_7

movieman wrote:

But it is insured if you're driving it and have such a policy on your own vehicle. I don't see what you're trying to say here...

I do think it's debatable as to whether it would count as 'any car not belonging to her' if it's the other person's car in a couple though. I'd be surprised if an insurance company would allow that.

To give an example, I sold my old car to a junk-yard and one of their guys who's insured to drive anything came around and drove it away. Are you claiming that was illegal because I'd transferred my insurance to my new car?

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but the last time I read my insurance policy in detail, it actually stated that the car being driven must be insured in its own right and not owned by or hired to the policy holder. This relates to a personal insurance policy, company policies are different.

Regarding your car being driven to the scrap yard, yes it was illegal. I believe first and foremost the car must be insured, and than the driver insured to drive it. In your example, the car was not insured, and therefore should not have been on the public highway.

nickmack

Mr_Grumpy wrote:

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but the last time I read my insurance policy in detail, it actually stated that the car being driven must be insured in its own right and not owned by or hired to the policy holder. This relates to a personal insurance policy, company policies are different.

Regarding your car being driven to the scrap yard, yes it was illegal. I believe first and foremost the car must be insured, and than the driver insured to drive it. In your example, the car was not insured, and therefore should not have been on the public highway.

I'm pretty sure that certain business insurance policies can cover vehicles even if the vehicle is not insured, in order to cover a situation such as the one movieman is referring to.

With personal policies, you are correct Mr Grumpy, the car must be insured in it's own right. Insurance companies are also coming down harder on drivers who flout this in order to manipulate their insurance costs.

Indeed, when you renew, check your policy carefully, some insurers are removing the clause that allows you to drive another vehicle with 3rd party cover completely.

movieman

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but the last time I read my insurance policy in detail, it actually stated that the car being driven must be insured in its own right and not owned by or hired to the policy holder.

Interesting: maybe they need to do that to avoid insurance fraud, but I doubt many people who, say, take a car on a test-drive before buying it are aware of that fact.

Astaroth

Never seen that condition on any motor policy - which insurer are you with?

Saying that, an increasing number of insurers are dropping the driving other cars cover anyway because it is so open to abuse

justmarried06

I agree with Mr Grumpy and nickmack - I change insurers every year and in nearly all cases the 'any other car' extension is invalid if the vehicle is not insured on a specific policy by another driver. I do also work as an insurance underwriter. It may well be that because there is no completely consistent approach to this extension across the marketplace that some policies are open to abuse as Astaroth says, with people insuring a cheaper car and making main use of their top of the range expensive machine!.........Sorry, started daydreaming about the Bugatti Veyron from Top Gear last Sunday then!!

JM x

DavidHM

Justmarried66 - obviously if it were a condition that a car had to be insured before it could be driven on an other cars extension, it would be a valid one - but I've never seen it either so I agree with Astaroth. What is a standard provision is that you cannot use "driving other cars" to use any car owned by the policcyholder (NB not registered to the policyholder - the V5 shows the keeper, not the legal owner of the car).

Lots of people presume that the car has to be insured but that's not what the Road Traffic Act says - it's the use of the car by the driver (and that includes being parked) that requires insurance, not technically either the car itself or the driver as a person. Of course the problem still arises once the car is parked on the road - it's not being driven to be covered by the "other cars" extension and it's not insured in its own right, but it's still technically being used.

As for the OP, I reckon there'll be a fine of £150 - £300 if the household is on an average income and six points. Probably there won't be a disqualification but it can't be ruled out. The insurer would want to know and there is a likelihood that the premium will be loaded further once the conviction is known.

You may feel more comfortable having a solicitor plead your case in court and/or advising on whether any summons is valid. The cost for this will be similar to the fine: £100 - £300 depending on preparation, travel and waiting time.

I have no idea what percentage of people are prosecuted for driving with no insurance but there is unfortunately nothing in this case that would make me think that the police would exercise their discretion not to prosecute. However, it is worth turning up in person and putting forward mitigation (oversight, driver not the one who deals with the policy, always had insurance, clean driving history, took out a new policy immediately) along with any hardship that would be caused in an attempt to avoid a disqualification.

A123JACK

Just a quick note to thank you all for your help and advice, especially avondale for the PM.

Will let you know how we got on at the police station next week.

Thanks

eamon

I personally would go to the police station with all your documents and explain your mistake/oversight and grovel big time!. You never know they may decide to accept that. Also just because your wife was uninsured doesn't always mean that the police/cps with prosecute.

yours

Eamon

rosscobley

Have you had your new cover note yet. At what time and date did it start. If you say that you sorted it 2 hours after there might be a chance that it will be dated from midnight that day or might not even have a time on there. you might just be able to get away with it up the station if the person looking dont take much notice of the time of offence and the time the cover note started