Spending money under EPA.

gingerfox

My mother has recently been moved to a care home following a stroke, currently under CHC, although this will be reassessed soon.

I have EPA and so far have not taken any funds from her account beyond household bills and personal items. I would like to know if I can use her money beyond this. For example, I have run up a considerable amount on my phone bill, hundreds of pounds in carparking fees (hospital) and had to take unpaid time off work whilst she was ill.

Is there any guidance on this anywhere? I don't want to do anything illegal, however it doesn't seem unreasonable to use the money to help.

joyfull

I'd be interested in what response you get to this.

I too have EPA for my Mum, now 8 yrs in a nursing home. My Mum, years ago offered to help with my travel costs & since then I have taken what expenses I have incurred in other areas too (I have very low income indeed). However, I have kept my siblings informed and keep records of what I have done. I have no idea of how or if the law has a bearing on this.

monkeyspanner

Here are the guidance notes you are looking for.
http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/global/forms/opg/epa101.pdf

You can claim reasonable expenses e.g. postage, stationary, telephone calls. But these can be challenged so you should keep accounts and receipts where possible. You cannot charge fees as a private individual acting as attorney. Obviously there would be some overlap between what you would do to visit your relative if you where not the attorney and what you do as the attorney so you would need to make a judgement as to what expenses you claim.

The guiding principle is that you should act in the persons best interest at all times. But some things become arguable e.g. would you pay towards a relative making a visit to the donor if they cannot afford the travel. In that circumstance I think you have to ask what would the donor have done?

Have you registered the EPA? This must be done if you believe the donor lacks mental capacity to oversea their finances and prior to making use of the EPA.

It is all a bit of a minefield but I hope this helps.
Good luck with the CHC funding review.

gingerfox

Thanks monkeyspanner, just waiting to hear back re registering it. It's been a long and costly haul and I've only just surfaced to look over my own accounts - which have taken a significant hit whilst Mum's account has only had house running costs drawn and a few new clothing items.

Whilst I would gladly give her anything, I know mum would cringe if she thought I was losing money on her behalf - she always pressed petrol money on me when we had a long time with hospital appointments and whenever I took her shopping.

Just don't want to be in the 'wrong' - I've kept a few obvious receipts but as we lived day to day for several months I haven't kept any other evidence. You don't think of receipts when you believe each day will be the last.

DST, what a thorn in the side just when you can do without it!

gingerfox

I've started keeping receipts now, but in the early days it was the last thing on our minds. Wouldn't be a problem with relatives, just don't want to be in the wrong if the LA take over.

Savvy_Sue

The thing that is always said about PofA is that you're acting on behalf of the person, so you can behave as they would have done.

Thus if they always gave £10 to any related child brought on a visit, and £50 on birthdays, then you can continue to do the same (I'm not sure you can allow for inflation!)

So if your mother always pressed petrol on you, then it would seem reasonable to say that she'd expect you to claim it.

The problem, of course, is whether you'd be able to 'prove' this. It's easier if there are several of you and mother treats all alike: I know my mother occasionally offers me petrol, but not consistently, and I know she's not consistent with my siblings either, so I'd have a hard job if it came to it.

On the other hand, you're finding it a struggle if you don't claim these expenses, and you don't know even now how long you've got, so my instinct might be to claim it, document it, and worry about the local authority when the time comes. Because it may not come, and if it does you'll be well set up to make your case. Obviously discuss with any other close relatives and be open with them.

Others may disagree, and this may be a grey area, but ...

cavework

If you have a POA it depends on factors such as Dementia as to how you can use money.
It is not unreasonable to cover costs from the donors estate when acting in the donors best interest or acting on their behalf. Monkeyspanner is right.
COP order is different but again expenses accrued while administering as a deputy should come from the donors assetts.
Quote
'I think if someone started gifting themselves money on other occasions on a regular basis then they could get into trouble.'

That is a totally different ballgame and reasonable expenses including Xmas and other gifts that would normally have been given if the orders where not in place should be acceptable.

gingerfox

The guidance from the Court does uphold the expenses incurred; I guess I'm just twitchy in case the LA will be awkward.

I totally take on board comments from Savvysue and newsgirl and feel at the moment that I am funding my mother's illness because I am unsure if our situation will develop into an LA investigation or not. On the other hand, I KNOW that my mother would be horrified and deeply unhappy if she knew all this.

I have found the issue of funding thus far to be quite distressing and am not looking forward to dealing with the LA. I suppose though if I had to pay back any expenses I took I'd be in exactly the position I am in now.

Savvy_Sue

gingerfox wrote: »

I suppose though if I had to pay back any expenses I took I'd be in exactly the position I am in now.

There is certainly that to consider. How soon might you reach the threshhold?

newsgirl wrote: »

In this case, the OP needs to speak to a solicitor for half an hour of free legal advice, and certainly shouldn't act on any advice in this forum, and that includes mine.

this is true, however, it seems to me that there's still some settling down to do in relation to the 'new' powers - is this one of them or one of the old ones?

gingerfox

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

There is certainly that to consider. How soon might you reach the threshhold?

this is true, however, it seems to me that there's still some settling down to do in relation to the 'new' powers - is this one of them or one of the old ones?

It's the old one SavvySue, and have the registration pending. I did see my mother's solicitor for the half hour but she didn't go into detail over acceptable expenses. It was more over the CHC and registration of EPA, which, after some research, I decided to do myself, and save Mum a large expense! That is something you can claim for.

Mum has a property, which although isn't worth much, puts her over the threshold.

I've found this forum more helpful than the LA and NHS, who I have found to be quite confusing and contradictory.

Savvy_Sue

gingerfox wrote: »

I've found this forum more helpful than the LA and NHS, who I have found to be quite confusing and contradictory.

:rotfl: well, since one of them may have to pay if the other one doesn't, it's in each organisation's interests to put you off.

I wonder if Age UK and Counsel and Care would have useful information on their websites?