water softner help in chosing and is this true

MatthewGaskin

We're about to have a new boiler and unvented tank fitted as part of an extension to the house, which will include a new bathroom.

As we're in a very hard water area the issue of limescale has come up. So I did some research. There seem to be four options for a whole-house system:

- traditional salt-dosing system (which, if I understand this thread correctly, can't be drunk, uses a lot of water to regenerate (we're on a water meter) and isn't recommended for a Worcester boiler (which is what we want).

- electronic/magnetic systems. I'm cynical about these but am open to persuasion.

- electrolytic systems. These sound more plausible but I'm still not persuaded.

- polyphosphate system. This doesn't seem to have the limitations of a salt-based one and my brief research suggests that it only needs a £30 annual topup. I found an article online that suggests that some water companies use this system themselves.

As you might have guessed I'm leaning towards the last of those but will very much welcome a reasoned explanation of why another option is preferable.

Apologies if this has question has already been answered - I tried ploughing through this thread but lost the will to live after the arguing started. Please point me in the right direction if it has already been covered elsewhere in the forums.

Many thanks

Matthew

Daryll

Just to throw my two penneth worth in.... We're considering a new water softener as our 16 year old RainSoft softener is playing up, and we're not sure spares are going to be available. Listening to people on here comparing prices is highly amusing, and slighty saddening, as we paid £1700 in 1998 for the RainSoft, but then water softeners were almost unheard of in homes.
Its been in 2 houses and 3 kitchens, and until the last month, has worked fine.

Its a single tank (seperate brine tank) with a clockwork timer, powered by an electric motor. Regeneration happens at 2am and takes about 45 minutes.

We get through a 25kg bag of salt every 6 weeks or so, thats with 4 of us in the house until the last year or so, when #1 Daughter moved out.

ALL of our water has always been softened....water comes in from the mains, through the softener, then out to all taps and tanks.

Since the softener has been turned off (as the brine tank is overflowing.. probably a dodgy valve somewhere), we've noticed the scum appearing on tea, and our skin feels itchy after a shower.

I can't wait to get the RainSoft repaired, or a new Softener....!!

yimpster

Daryll wrote: »

Just to throw my two penneth worth in.... We're considering a new water softener as our 16 year old RainSoft softener is playing up, and we're not sure spares are going to be available. Listening to people on here comparing prices is highly amusing, and slighty saddening, as we paid £1700 in 1998 for the RainSoft, but then water softeners were almost unheard of in homes.
Its been in 2 houses and 3 kitchens, and until the last month, has worked fine.

Its a single tank (seperate brine tank) with a clockwork timer, powered by an electric motor. Regeneration happens at 2am and takes about 45 minutes.

We get through a 25kg bag of salt every 6 weeks or so, thats with 4 of us in the house until the last year or so, when #1 Daughter moved out.

ALL of our water has always been softened....water comes in from the mains, through the softener, then out to all taps and tanks.

Since the softener has been turned off (as the brine tank is overflowing.. probably a dodgy valve somewhere), we've noticed the scum appearing on tea, and our skin feels itchy after a shower.

I can't wait to get the RainSoft repaired, or a new Softener....!!

Pretty sure you shouldn't be drinking softened water.

dingledong

there is less salt in a glass of softened water than a bag of crisps i think youd need a good few pints to get anywhere near a bag of crisps

but i have phoned 3 companies supply only as we have a plumber here at the moment all said 31200 for the 2020c

dingledong

you wouls need a good few pints to get anywhere near a bag of crisps.
i phoned 3 companies last week, just supply only all 3 quoted £1200

Doc_N

It's sodium that's the problem. Not specifically salt. It really is better to leave the kitchen tap on a hard supply.

frankie

Going through the water softner minefield and getting to the conclusion that you either have to go down the 'double glazing' type salesman route or source own device and commission a decent plumber.

I'm favouring the latter option and would welcome coments on these systems:

A BTW such as:
http://www.buyaparcel.com/p/mx-atmos-mixer-showers/bwt-waterside-ws355-hi-flo-ws-meter-controlled-water-softener-includes-complete/

A Tapworks such as:

http://www.plumb-warehouse.co.uk/shop/tapworks/tapworks-ad11-easyflow-water-535637.html?gclid=COus1KSu5roCFfHItAodkD4A-w

I know the Tapworks has had some mentions on this thread but any updates would be welcome, have't seen comments on the BTW?

Doc_N

frankie wrote: »

Going through the water softner minefield and getting to the conclusion that you either have to go down the 'double glazing' type salesman route or source own device and commission a decent plumber.

I'm favouring the latter option and would welcome coments on these systems:

A BTW such as:
http://www.buyaparcel.com/p/mx-atmos-mixer-showers/bwt-waterside-ws355-hi-flo-ws-meter-controlled-water-softener-includes-complete/

A Tapworks such as:

http://www.plumb-warehouse.co.uk/shop/tapworks/tapworks-ad11-easyflow-water-535637.html?gclid=COus1KSu5roCFfHItAodkD4A-w

I know the Tapworks has had some mentions on this thread but any updates would be welcome, have't seen comments on the BTW?

Certainly source your own - your description of the 'double glazing' route is accurate and well put! Most softeners are 'worth' perhaps £400-500. Salesmen have to be paid, and that bumps the price up to more than twice that in some cases, but it's not the softener you're actually paying for.

I can only speak for the Tapworks. I won't repeat my earlier posts, but you'll find they're almost identical (not quite - slightly less sophisticated progammer) to Ecowater models costing more than twice as much. In pretty much every other respect, identical - check them both out, though, and you'll see. Same company makes both.

I had an Ecowater. Great machine - lasted for years. I planned to buy another until I discovered that Tapworks and Ecowater are almost the same, and that I could save not far short of £1000 by buying the Tapworks. I can thoroughly recommend it, and I have no axe to grind at all on the subject.

brumster

All,


I've just finished reading all 729 posts and all I can say is thanks to all those who have contributed. This pretty much has to be the defacto source for all things water softener related on the web at the moment. I started reading the thread at some point yesterday (knowing very little) and I somewhat more confident about making a decision now than I did then. I still have one or two questions that hopefully someone can help.


I'm having some work done on the house at the moment that involves replacing all bathrooms, the kitchen and the heating system. My plumber is therefore starting from scratch so I'm pretty sure that this is the right time to put in a softener (we're in a moderately hard water area).


My intention is to have the rising main feed the kitchen cold tap, refrigerator (cold water/ice function), outside taps and the heating loop top-up, everything else would then be fed from the header tank (which is to be filled via the softener).


Having read the forum my intention is to source a single tank softener for around £400-500, that is metered (not timed) because we are on a water meter (and I like the idea of knowing from the electronic output how much water is going thought the softener and when it was last generated). At this stage most of my unanswered questions are connected with the fact that the property is on a water meter, so with that in mind......


1. Does anyone have any comments about the proposed layout of the pipework discussed above?


2. Do I need to be concerned with the amount of water used during the regen cycle given that we are on a water meter? I'm assuming so. There appear to be quite a lot of differences between the amount of water used during regen. If you google "patmore Regeneration water volume" and hit the first link you'll see what I mean (apologies I can't post links as new user).

3. The larger the softener (and therefore the associated quantities of resin) the more time before regenerations which results in less water used (and wasted) during regen. Is that correct?


4. Can anyone recommend a softener that uses the least amount of water during regeneration?


Again, thanks for all those contributing above!


Paul

frankie

Had a plumber round working on some rads and asked him about softners. He said they were a good idea but to be very careful where to site them In his opinion under the sink is not always best due to the weight buckling the carcass floor and the high humidity they generate rots out the MDF carcass. He's been in situations where this has happened.

Any one had issues with these sort of problems?