Disputed Liability

fozzeh

Why oh why this has got this far I don't know.

I was hit by someone in the first week on November. 3rd party tried to exit roundabout from wrong lane, side swipe, details exchanged, 3P admitted liability, totally at fault, on my way.

Anyway, 3P is now disputing liability 7 weeks later. If there was any doubt, I would drop it...but this one the 3P was totally in the wrong. They went into a new lane, realised it was the wrong one, pulled back into their old lane where 2 cars had already gone past and hit the second of them!

Just awaiting further details from Swiftcover but how far do I push this? From the lane specifics, where I was, the damage and my knowledge of the area (3P admitted they didn't know the area) I would assume that they would judge in my favour but we know how messed up the insurance system is.

Just need a little advice/reassurance Can provide more details is needed.

joeyfreak

I dont know a lot about insurance but I have just had to settle an insurance claim on a 50:50 basis where it was very clear that the other party was 100% at fault.
3rd party pulled onto a roundabout which I was already on and hit the side of my car. It was very clear it was there fault.
My solicitor orignally said take it all the way to court as the damage proves what I say. 3rd party submit a statement which offers a very flimsy obviously fake version of events with an offer of 50:50 liability.
I spent a year trying to get my solicitor to take it to court and he wouldnt do it as there was not a 100% garantee I would win depite me being 100% sure that I was not at fault and my solicitor also agreed but said the court might not.
I gave up fighting because it just wasnt worth it and took the 50:50 and payed 3rd party claim out of what I recieved just to keep my no claims.
Insurance is a total con

magicdamo1984

although this seems clear cut non fault in your eyes if the tp telll their insurance company that you changed lanes then their insurance will 100% back them,your insurance company should send you a letter asking for a clear statement and diagram of the incident asking what lane you joined the roundabout from and where you were going ,the tp will be asked the same and if your lucky the tp will give conflicting information to their original statement and your insurance will push for 100%,if not then your insurance company will settle as 50/50 as is near on impossible to prove who changed lanes based on damage.

adamc260

Sadly without any real evidence it's quite simple for the Third party to deny and say 'you changed into them'

Unless there is a witness usually roundabout collisions are settled 50/50. It's a shame people don't just hold their hands up in the event of an accident and say 'Its my fault'

When I used to deal with claims there was a direct question we had to ask "Do you feel you are at fault for the incident" and would then tell the PH where they stand based on the circumstances given to us to give them an idea.

Do you have any witnesses and if it's on a roundabout do you know if there is a CCTV?

Insurance is all about minising their loss, if they feel they don't have enough evidence to get a 100% non fault claim they will work out what is the best outcome they could get. In a roundabout collision as I said it is usually 50/50 as they aren't being held 100% responsible so they often feel that is the 'best outcome'. It's a shame but that's how insure is.

fozzeh

magicdamo1984 wrote: »

although this seems clear cut non fault in your eyes if the tp telll their insurance company that you changed lanes then their insurance will 100% back them,your insurance company should send you a letter asking for a clear statement and diagram of the incident asking what lane you joined the roundabout from and where you were going ,the tp will be asked the same and if your lucky the tp will give conflicting information to their original statement and your insurance will push for 100%,if not then your insurance company will settle as 50/50 as is near on impossible to prove who changed lanes based on damage.

Diagram done, sent off, here's the main 2.

1st, I am circled yellow (well, where yellow would be) and 3P in red



Yellow shows 3P path, blue mine.



I still have the option to go around the roundabout too from my lane!

magicdamo1984 wrote: »

although this seems clear cut non fault in your eyes if the tp telll their insurance company that you changed lanes then their insurance will 100% back them,your insurance company should send you a letter asking for a clear statement and diagram of the incident asking what lane you joined the roundabout from and where you were going ,the tp will be asked the same and if your lucky the tp will give conflicting information to their original statement and your insurance will push for 100%,if not then your insurance company will settle as 50/50 as is near on impossible to prove who changed lanes based on damage.

I'm going to push for 100% regardless and my claims handler seems to be backing it. From the damage, you can see where 3P hit and how it happened. Unfortunately, everyone !!!!!!ed off before I could stop a witness and it was too dark for photo's!
If Swiftcover don't go for it, I will with SCC!

It is a con. There is no sense of honour or pride on the roads any more. The price of insurance is making people do this and the government are doing nothing about it (but that is a different rant!).

fozzeh

Bit of updated.

3rd party have finally given their statement. Unclear, doesn’t state events, photo’s were unclear and there were 8 points which I found were incorrect. Claims adviser is unsure where they are coming from so just hoping that they do confirm it is unreliable.

Policy runs out on the 27th too! What a pain!

Quentin

fozzeh wrote: »

......Policy runs out on the 27th too! What a pain!

The policy running out will cause pain, but won't affect the outcome (or handling) of your claim.

The pain will be that the claim will probably be unsettled by then.

Meaning that (unless you have it protected), your NCD will be impacted at renewal.

So if you want to change insurers you will have 3 years less NCD than anticipated (lose 2 for the claim, and none added for the current year).

Your renewal premium will be affected, though if eventually settled 100% in your favour it should be adjusted back to the start date, and a refund issued.

If you move elsewhere, get the new insurer to agree that should your NCD be reinstated they will refund any premium adjustment back to the start date.

fozzeh

Have put that to them this morning.

When I merged my car into this policy, the mirrored the no claims up to their max (5 years) for it so it would be a difference between 3 or 6. Swift have already said they won’t be able to offer me insurance this year so will have to move elsewhere.

At present, not even clear what 3P are alleging so need to get that sorted first! Saying no metal or paint damage is interesting considering I have a nice big scratch with half their paintwork and a scuffed alloy!

lisyloo

From the damage, you can see where 3P hit and how it happened.

I sympathise and I am totally on your side, but can you explain how the damage proves either way who hit who?

Bangton

As adamc260 states often roundabout collisions are 50/50. In this case, whilst I am on your side, wouldn't it be easy for the third party to state you moved lanes and hit him? The damage to your car I assume would match his version of events as well as yours if he were to state this was the case...?

I do know this is really annoying, especially when you know you are right. Your insurer will trust what you are saying but similarly so will the third party's meaning there has to be some form of tangible evidence to support you. Something they won't consider is how well you know the area and how little the third party did as to be fair that means nothing! Someone who doesn't know an area may be a lot more alert than someone who does know an area and drives along thinking they know what is around the next corner (I am not critising you by the way...but this is the logic of insurance).
To be fair I think it sucks but if 2 people came to you and told you a different story ...who would you believe and on what grounds...? It's the same for insurance companies.
Without an independent witness my guess is it will be a 50/50 outcome although it sounds like the TP hasn't got his story straight - which might help!

fozzeh

lisyloo wrote: »

I sympathise and I am totally on your side, but can you explain how the damage proves either way who hit who?

It would be hard to describe without actually looking. You can see where impact occurred then where rest of side swipe happened.

If damage was closer to my nose, I would say it would be harder to assume what happened but it is that far down my car (about a meter) and with the impact point then it would have only been from one angle.

If it had been from a different direction/angle (which would be a counter argument), I would have been in a river...which didn't happen :rotfl:

I really hope some CCTV comes through.

Bangton wrote: »

As adamc260 states often roundabout collisions are 50/50. In this case, whilst I am on your side, wouldn't it be easy for the third party to state you moved lanes and hit him? The damage to your car I assume would match his version of events as well as yours if he were to state this was the case...?

I do know this is really annoying, especially when you know you are right. Your insurer will trust what you are saying but similarly so will the third party's meaning there has to be some form of tangible evidence to support you. Something they won't consider is how well you know the area and how little the third party did as to be fair that means nothing! Someone who doesn't know an area may be a lot more alert than someone who does know an area and drives along thinking they know what is around the next corner (I am not critising you by the way...but this is the logic of insurance).
To be fair I think it sucks but if 2 people came to you and told you a different story ...who would you believe and on what grounds...? It's the same for insurance companies.
Without an independent witness my guess is it will be a 50/50 outcome although it sounds like the TP hasn't got his story straight - which might help!

3P could say that but that would throw their story out even more as we would both have had to be in different lanes. As said, from the lane I was in, I could still go around the roundabout and the lane they had moved into was solely for going around the roundabout.

I see the logic too regarding the area. Just depends how they look at it. It is a fairly complex roundabout with new lanes being made after every 90 degree where it is better to know the area.

3P hasn’t actually provided a story. Just says “I was going that way and collision happened”. They just say it wasn’t their fault…but not why!