Chip & PIN Weakness Revealed

CopperPlate_2

Using the PIN and card at an ATM is not fraud. You are not deceiving anyone. In Scotland it is classed as Theft by Opening Lockfast Places, a crime at common law as opposed to one under statute. You are effectively using the 'key' to 'open' the secure place.

The debate is very interesting - loads of PIN hacking/skimming ongoing, but then it was the same with the old mag stripe cards. Suppose C&Sig cards might be technically more secure, yet the fallibility is in the signature as opposed to the PIN.

James

Your right the fallibility with Chip & Signature in shops is the Signature - But the liability - isn't the victims.

As for ATMs - no PIN = no liability whatsoever.

Paul_Herring

James wrote:

Your right the fallibility with Chip & Signature in shops is the Signature - But the liability - isn't the victims.

Nor is it with chip and pin.

The liability shift introduced with chips was from the banks to the businesses, not from the bank to the customers: http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/business/card_payments/means/shift_liability.html

James

Hot from the Press:

John Scott-Hubbard and Brian Warburton doctored the devices so they would record customers' secret pin numbers.

Only one of the 41 chip and pin machines they doctored has been found, meaning hundreds of people could have had their details stolen in the scam

The Judge summed up:
'In the part you played, in my judgment, you were instrumental in the significant increase in the level of credit card fraud since the chip and pin scheme was introduced, a scheme designed to combat if not eliminate this class of fraud.'

Click here for full story:

Tootsie_Roll

James wrote:

Hot from the Press:

John Scott-Hubbard and Brian Warburton doctored the devices so they would record customers' secret pin numbers.

Only one of the 41 chip and pin machines they doctored has been found, meaning hundreds of people could have had their details stolen in the scam

The Judge summed up:
'In the part you played, in my judgment, you were instrumental in the significant increase in the level of credit card fraud since the chip and pin scheme was introduced, a scheme designed to combat if not eliminate this class of fraud.'

Click here for full story:

Yes, yes - we've heard it from you before many times. They still can't copy the chip though so still better off with a chip and pin card.

Really - try thinking this through before posting this drivel.

roger9_2

Tootsie_Roll wrote:

Yes, yes - we've heard it from you before many times. They still can't copy the chip though so still better off with a chip and pin card.

Really - try thinking this through before posting this drivel.

Hi,
Last week they were on about Alliance & Leicester and Barclays but there may also be other banks that if your pin no. gets stolen and your card is used with the pin they will not accept responsibility. Watchdog did a quick con showing how easy it was to steal a pin no. but the said banks would not reimburse a pensioner who had thousands stolen out of her account via "hole in wall".

MY QUESTION IS:-
WHICH BANKS OUT THERE DO COVER YOU FOR THIS? HOW CAN YOU FIND OUT WHICH THEY ARE PLEASE?

roger9_2

Idiophreak wrote:

*sobs*

I just don't understand what this has to do with chip and pin at all!?

You could already do this with an "old skool" card?

READ IT AGAIN THEN YOU'LL SEE

Tootsie_Roll

roger9

Please look through the numerous postings about this already. The Watchdog article was very misleading.

roger9_2

James wrote:

It's all in the sPIN.

Theft your absolutely right.

Fraud, well I'd argue that someone else pretending to be the real card owner and using the correct PIN, (and according to the Northampton Chip & PIN trial - a PIN proves that the person using the card is the righful owner), then this is ID Theft or Fraud.

How does using the pin no. prove you own it?

roger9_2

James wrote:

It's all in the sPIN.

Theft your absolutely right.

Fraud, well I'd argue that someone else pretending to be the real card owner and using the correct PIN, (and according to the Northampton Chip & PIN trial - a PIN proves that the person using the card is the righful owner), then this is ID Theft or Fraud.

How does using the pin no. prove you own it?