Chip & PIN Weakness Revealed

James

Tootsie_Roll wrote:

James

I see your boring and completely inaccurate crusade continues.

Have you one scrap of PROOF that it is chip and pin weakness as opposed to mag strip and pin weakness.............................no - I don't think so.

I keep mentioning to you and you refuse to accept that it is impossible to clone the chip at the moment. Some banks ATM's have been upgraded to ONLY read the chip not the mag strip so for those banks ATM fraud is now zero since it's introduction in the latter part of last year. .

Cheers Tootsie Roll,

You obviously never caught Watchdog last night. I can't argue you can't clone a chip (yet), but you can highjcak the Chip & PIN as demonstrated on Watchdog lastnight.

So fraud is NIL at ATMs - tell that to the victims who've had their cards pinched and used at the said ATMs, when once again Watchdog proved there's a liability shift on to the cardholder.

I think you'll find ALL ATMs for the timebeing will continue to read magstrips (me thinking banks own link cards - some of which there's no plans to chip at present). What your meaning I suppose is that if a Chip card is presented to one of these New ATMs then the ATM will first of all look for the Chip. You don't know if there's a fall back do you?

Not changed your mind yet about getting yourself Chip & Signature Credit Cards?

You can Money Save all you like but all your efforts will go down the drain if you end up the victim of PIN based fraud and you're not believed.

Tootsie_Roll

James wrote:

Cheers Tootsie Roll,

You obviously never caught Watchdog last night.

Yes I did, no evidence to show it was CHIP and pin and overall very misleading.

James wrote:

I can't argue you can't clone a chip (yet), but you can highjcak the Chip & PIN as demonstrated on Watchdog lastnight.

No evidence to support this either - how do you know it wasn't the mag strip that was being used and moving forward how does it affect the cardholder in the future - again no evidence or facts at all !!

James wrote:

So fraud is NIL at ATMs - tell that to the victims who've had their cards pinched and used at the said ATMs, when once again Watchdog proved there's a liability shift on to the cardholder.

That's theft - not fraud.

James wrote:

I think you'll find ALL ATMs for the timebeing will continue to read magstrips (me thinking banks own link cards - some of which there's no plans to chip at present). What your meaning I suppose is that if a Chip card is presented to one of these New ATMs then the ATM will first of all look for the Chip. You don't know if there's a fall back do you?

Support this with evidence ! You can't, your facts are wrong. I have not stated that all banks have switched to chip read only but for those that have they have no fraud - surely this is an argument for C&P ?

James wrote:

Not changed your mind yet about getting yourself Chip & Signature Credit Cards?

Much easier to forge a signature that guess a pin so I'll stick with the most secure method available to me today - Chip and pin.

miller

James wrote:

I think you'll find ALL ATMs for the timebeing will continue to read magstrips

It was demonstrated some time ago that on cards equipped with a chip, a bit could be changed on the magstripe to convince the ATM the card was not equipped with a chip anyway.

James

Tootsie Roll, Tootsie Roll, Tootsie Roll.

Just admit it, you never seen Watchdog last night.

I think what you mean that if a genuine chipped card is used in an updated UK ATM with the correct PIN then no fraud occurs.

Could you explain to a victim who'se had their card and PIN pinched and that card used at the above said ATM before the victims noticed the loss that fraud hasn't occured at that ATM. I think not.

James

Good citizens of Chipping Norton or if you've visited Chipping Norton recently, check your credit and debit card statements.

You could be the latest victim of card fraud;

WEDNESDAY FEBRUARY 7 - CARD users are being warned to stay vigilant after a skimming scam thought to involve Chip and Pin machines was uncovered in Chipping Norton.

Story click here:

James

Retina's not entirely due to true and false rejection rates.

The essence of the French C&P system was that it is French. French cards couldn't be used in non-French banks or retailers outside France.

We've got a hybrid, this hybrid can be used world wide and it's costing us dear.

If you'd seen Watchdog you might ask yourself why you need a PIN with your credit card.


There's a good chance that if your card and PIN is used fraudulently before you notice or report it lost, you'd end up footing the cost of that fraud. Why risk it?

MPH80

James wrote:

There's a good chance that if your card and PIN is used fraudulently before you notice or report it lost, you'd end up footing the cost of that fraud. Why risk it?

Because, James, as I have pointed out to you several times - under the LAW - you are not liable if you use a credit card even if you are negligent with a pin. Debit cards, are, I'll admit, another matter.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=4248570&postcount=26


M.

Tootsie_Roll

James wrote:

I think what you mean that if a genuine chipped card is used in an updated UK ATM with the correct PIN then no fraud occurs.

No - I mean exactly what I say. As I have mentioned previously my wife works in the card fraud department for one of the main UK banks - she deals with this on a daily basis. Unless you have facts to back up your argument don't bother.

James wrote:

Could you explain to a victim who'se had their card and PIN pinched and that card used at the above said ATM before the victims noticed the loss that fraud hasn't occured at that ATM. I think not.

No fraud - theft definately and possibly negligence if the card holder kept their pin with their card.

James

It's all in the sPIN.

Theft your absolutely right.

Fraud, well I'd argue that someone else pretending to be the real card owner and using the correct PIN, (and according to the Northampton Chip & PIN trial - a PIN proves that the person using the card is the righful owner), then this is ID Theft or Fraud.

Idiophreak

James wrote:

Could you explain to a victim who'se had their card and PIN pinched and that card used at the above said ATM before the victims noticed the loss that fraud hasn't occured at that ATM. I think not.

*sobs*

I just don't understand what this has to do with chip and pin at all!?

You could already do this with an "old skool" card?