Council Says Planning Permission Required For Existing Fence With New Panels

Richard_Webster

I had a slightly different experience in working for a Council. We once had friends in a fairly rough area and if I said I worked "for the Council" they probably thought I was a dustman or something like that, rather than a solicitor!

lush_walrus

SteedandPeelcats wrote:

True, but they're the ones that the public come into contact with. They think all we do is tell them they can't have a new extension etc. or that greenfield and greenbelt are the same thing (my personal pet hate)! I wouldn't like to work for a local authority at all, I get enough strange looks from people when I say I'm a planner...I wouldn't have this trouble if I were an architect!

Hahaha, no you wouldn't have that problem, but you would have the converse problem, trying to second guess the planners!!! And then explaining the outcome to our clients....Not always fantastic either!!

I am probably the most disliked of them all then....I own an EAs, started out studyin planning and changed to architecture....So all in all I only need to add car salesman/tax inspector and I am done!

Kaminari_2

...and traffic Warden, Lush Walrus.

1066Kopite

The law on this is quite simple. Unless the Council has passed an Article 4 Direction altering your Permitted Development Rights, you are allowed a fence upto 1m high on land adjacent to a highway.

If the fence is more than 1m high you will require planning permission. It appears as though your friend has fallen into the trap of removing an old fence that was in excess of 1m high and trying to put over 1m high panels in its place.

The choices are simple: -

Apply for Planning Permission; or
Reduce the height to 1m.

cat79_2

I will try to offer some advice in realtion to the situation, however firstly would like to say, I am a planner in a local authority and the amount of bad press we get sickens me. People complaining that we are jobsworth etc, we have to work with the legislation we are given which is passed by central government, if we dont we are not doing our jobs properly an open to even more complaints. We are working to try and improve the amenity of an area whilst taking into account impact on neighbouring properties, we are not "out to get you" and to make your life difficult, though if you have had a bad experience then you would probably take this view. Too many people expect that if they pay a fee and apply for planning permission it automatically means planning permission will be granted. Furthemore that it is the planning officer that has the final say, its not, its the councillors that the public elects. We make recommendations, the councillors can (and often) do overturn the decisions (councillors who have no/or very little training in planning - oh the politics of it all).

Anyway, getting back to the issue of the fence. In scotland the relevant legislation (GDPO 1992) states

Class
7.—(1) The erection, construction, maintenance, improvement or alteration of a gate, fence, wall or other means of enclosure.

(2) Development is not permitted by this class if—
(a) the height of any gate, fence, wall or other means of enclosure to be erected or constructed within 20 metres of a road would, after the carrying out of the development, exceed one metre above ground level;
(b) the height of any other gate, fence, wall or other means of enclosure to be erected or constructed would exceed two metres above ground level;
(c) the height of any existing gate, fence, wall or other means of enclosure maintained, improved or altered would, as a result of the development, exceed its former height or the height referred to in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) as the height appropriate to it if erected or constructed, whichever is the greater; or
(d) it would involve development within the curtilage of, or in respect of a gate, fence, wall or other means of enclosure surrounding, a listed building.

As you have taken down the fence which you say had no permission (that you know of) in the first place (though as older than 4years would not be subject to enforcment action anyway) though replacing the panels, you are effectively erecting a new fence at a height of approx 2m within 20m of a road and planning permission is required. In point c above you can see the reasoning behind alterinng it bit by bit, i.e. not erecting a new fence as such, simply replacing the panels (though only if the same height). However as you have removed all the old panels it is considered to constitute development. Therefore you need to apply for planning permission for a new fence IF the planning dept enforce the issue. Enforcement officers have the power to enforce however they DO NOT have to, its only if it is the public interest to do so, this is a matter of fact and degree. If it is affecting sight lines or harming the character of the area, then they may choose to pursue it. It also depends on how the issue came to their attention, if it is a neighbour, who is on their backs about it, and going to their local councillor etc then its likely it wont get lost under the pile of other complaints in the in tray. Its likely it is a neighbour who has complained and unlikely to have been a planning officer noticing it on their site visits, we do have enough of a workload without making more for ourselves. However I would not advise anyone to carry out work without requiring permission and hope that nobody notices for 4 years, the regs are there for a reason.

I know at times planning legislation seems a bit ridiculous there is no denying it, but its all we have got. The best advice is to apply for permission, regularise the development and have done with it. When an application is submitted you will (or the council will) notify neighbours and then it is open to objections (although then you may find out who complained). However, its unlikely a fence which cause no major issues in terms of visibility splays etc and looks in charcater with the area will be refused.

Advice based on scottish regs

amcluesent

You can be sure that that after the jobsworths have taxed you for planning permission, it'll be on their computer that you enjoy the amenity of a lovely new fence. That'll be taken into consideration when the army of snoopers come around to revalue (upwards of course) to increase the council tax. These union men do expect an index-linked pension, you know!