Consumer Focus response to MSE posts on E.On 'Spring review' DD scheme

victor2

Different company, EDF this time, but also a problem with their DD calculations.
Thread here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/50851867#Comment_50851867
Backfoot suggested I link to it from here as this issue is getting some attention.

meggsy

I think it should be mentioned here that there were many threads at the end of last year and since where it was suspected that npower were also increasing DD's far in excess of expected usage.

DirectDebacle

Following an article in todays Times E.On have posted and update https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/50862029#Comment_50862029

They are still clinging to their spring zero balance policy. Obvioously they have found it of great benefit to them and are determined to force customers to participate rather than make it an incentivised option.

Thanks to the O.P (C.F.) who have obviously persuaded this movement from E.On. Perhaps this change will be sufficient admission of wrongdoing to enable C.F. to refer manipulation of the original DD scheme by suppliers to Ofgem.

Preservation of the original DD scheme is paramount so E.On or others hare brained payment schemes do not become the norm.

backfoot

DD et al,

What is the difference between this announcement and the explanation given of the existing scheme in the Twitter Table?

A variable 3 month period of spring means that even end of November starters get spring aligned. Basically they can short year align anyone except for those starting in December onwards and they will then be recovered between 13 and 15 months, including two peak winter periods.

It sounded great on first reading. It's mutton dressed as lamb,isn't it?

MisterCee72

Wholly underwhelmed by today's announcement by E.ON, which does little or nothing to address my ongoing concerns as a customer of much longer than 18 months (joined in June 2008, supply commenced July 2008, first bill November 2008), in pursuit of a zero Spring balance.

Additionally, I have purposely not signed up for E.ON's 28,000-strong (or 0.35% of their customer account holders) YouSay panel at this point in time and that would seem to be validated with wording of this release, with no weight or credit apportioned to the feedback of regular customers who are not part of said panel, including those who have raised complaints prior to the commencement of your "reset" process and prior to the brief that Tony Cocker issued to E.ON staff on the direct debit issues, which also preceded the start of this "reset".

Furthermore, this statement appears to be less than what Consumer Focus relayed to DirectDebacle from E.ON and it would be helpful if CF can clarify on here whether they feel this press release is what they were expecting to be released and whether it satisfies all of the concerns that they have on this matter.

Example.... if the Q1 Direct Debit reviews have been suspended due to system issues (see post 70 by DD), then why not share that though the press release too, or do we have to suffer this in a drip, drip manner?

Let's cut to the chase here.

When do E.ON propose to start providing accurate and easily understood breakdowns of their customer's system-altered direct debit amounts including the maths workings/logic for those changes (upon request)?

Once that nut is cracked, then E.ON won't need to blame things such as "staff training issues", as both customers and customer services/billing staff can have easy reference to the same data/logic, rather than persisting in this protracted and tiresome dance over where the data lives on their system, or worse, claiming that they no longer can access said data.

Only when customers have the necessary transparency on the logic and accuracy of direct debit payments, will this start to feel less circular. Poet123's recent posts demonstrate that E.ON still do not appear to be playing ball on this.

So back to you Consumer Focus and E.ON......

backfoot

Now and again a post is written with such clarity of the issue it stands out from the mass of the others.

Well done MisterCee :T.

poet123

I am still awaiting a promised callback from Saturday.....giving them till tomorrow then I will call them.

DirectDebacle

backfoot wrote: »

DD et al,

What is the difference between this announcement and the explanation given of the existing scheme in the Twitter Table?

A variable 3 month period of spring means that even end of November starters get spring aligned. Basically they can short year align anyone except for those starting in December onwards and they will then be recovered between 13 and 15 months, including two peak winter periods.

It sounded great on first reading. It's mutton dressed as lamb,isn't it?

Agreed. Appears to me that collecting excessive DD payments has not been eradicated but has merely reduced the excess collected.

As you remarked earlier how will this work on live accounts as opposed to the theoretical world of Twitter Tables and hypothetical examples will be interesting for us innocent bystanders.

Most companies incl. E.On struggle to correctly estimate usage and set DDs accurately within a 12 month period. Now E.On are proposing they can do it over 18 months. Must have upgraded their crystal balls. I think they come free with the Crystal Mark for clarity;)

Fun times ahead for E.On customers.

I wonder what C.F. make of it.

DirectDebacle

On the advice of backfoot some points I raised on another thread repeated here for the information of C.F./Ofgem should they monitor this thread.

Can an E.On rep confirm if the following features of their previous spring balance policy are unchanged by the review.

1. It remains merely a policy/practice and has not become a Term and Condition of the contract.

2. On joining E.On the initial DD is set on the basis of cost of annual usage/12 = monthly DD.

3. Prior to entering into the contract (and on subsequent re-assessment) a detailed explanation of the DD scheme and how the spring balance policy has affected any change is not given.

4. Customers who do not agree with the policy and wish to keep their DD payments set to the basis they were originally agreed will be refused this right.

5. E.On will transfer such customers to other payment plans or cancel the contract if DD is the only payment option.

6. The revised DD scheme will still cause some customers to pay a monthly DD in excess of that which would be paid using the original 12 month DD scheme.

7. E.On are in breach of contract by enforcing upon customers a policy which does not form part of the agreed Terms and Conditions of the contract.

If any of the above has been changed please explain what the changes are and how they will impact upon your customers.

Also another critical article in The Times this morning.

backfoot

Open Letter to Martin Abraham, OFGEM:

Dear Martin,

I refer to my previous correspondence and know that you are monitoring this issue via this thread started by Consumer Focus.

I would draw your attention to the following threads which are also relevant to the topic. There are many others, no less significant and links to them can be found or by a simple forum search for Eon Direct Debits.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3629707

This is a thread started by Eon promoting their 'Reset'. It also includes their Press Announcement on Direct Debits. You will see that despite the Consumer Focus initial welcome of the Announcement, there remains much the same concern regarding zero spring balance.

In particular, it is felt that there is very little difference between the actual policy before the announcement and following it. Reference to Eon's own Twitter Table are the key point. Up to now, Eon have not clarified the significance of the change proposed, despite many invitations. There will still remain the need for Eon customers to pay 'premium amount' DD's.'

There are also major ongoing concerns, described by poster DirectDebacle, concerning non inclusion of Eon's unique policy in their Terms and Conditions. With the route to a switch often made by Comparison Website, (where monthly amounts of 1/12th is the norm), it is vital for Eon to be totally upfront. Any enforcement of their policy being totally questionable without clear T and C's.

The other major strand is that Eon and EDF fail significantly to explain changes to Direct Debits at the time of any change.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3787041

This thread relates to EDF and covers the concerns shown in hundreds of posts concerning EDF generating DD adjustments (often random) without any supporting clear and easily understandable explanation.

Eon and EDF both issue these Direct Debit Revisions without anything other than generic explanations or typical graphs of seasonal consumption.

These aren't matters which require individual complaint, to say whether they are compliant with SLC 27.14 and your recently issued DD Factsheet. They simply aren't and this situation has been present for a long time. Customers, if they are aware of their rights, are having to continually chase the required information. When finally extracted the information rarely supports the change request.

Posters have rightly commented as to why such fundamental breaches of the recently introduced rules (2010) have not been picked up by Ofgem. Any scrutiny, of any bill including a DD review, will show this.

Ofgem are invited to comment here on these matters or take appropriate action to resolve basic customer concerns and enforce your own Regulations.