Paypal Protection - A Word Of Warning

scotthillier

Probably a bit late to help anyone this Xmas, but for the future ....

2 Things I've learned to my cost.

1) If you buy goods that turn out to be counterfeit, paying by paypal, expecting protection, you may well find yourself put in a position where you cannot claim.
I bought goods, they arrived, obviously counterfeit. The seller shut down his ebay account. So I tried to claim.
Paypal gave me 10 days to get documentation "Proving" the goods were counterfeit.
No retailer would do this, as they said they had no garments to compare them to. No retailer would have any either, since the ones I had bought weren't copies, they were just made up and a logo attached.
I was told by paypal not to send the goods abroad as there were legal issues of counterfeits being passed through customs.
Since the real manufacturer was based abroad - I was basically stuck.

I couldnt get proof from a retailer, I couldnt get proof from the manufacturer.
So basically put in a position by paypal where I cant claim.

So be very careful when buying clothes that COULD be counterfeit unless the manufacturer of that brand is in your country.

2) - If you have paid using your credit card, through paypal - your credit card companies protection is null and void.
Barclaycard wrote to me to say that paypal do not enter into some trust agreement, and therefore I'm not covered through them.
Very frustrating, as I could have paid through a website directly on my card, but went through paypal thinking Id be double covered.

All in all - be very wary of using paypal, even though I know only too well, its often the only choice.

RFW

scotthillier wrote: »

2) - If you have paid using your credit card, through paypal - your credit card companies protection is null and void.
Barclaycard wrote to me to say that paypal do not enter into some trust agreement, and therefore I'm not covered through them.

If it's over £100 then your credit card covers you no matter what under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

Oliver14

RFW wrote: »

If it's over £100 then your credit card covers you no matter what under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

Actually it doesn't as if you pay via paypal it's legally counted as a third party transaction. So your dealings are with paypal not the retailer. The majority of banks see it this way only the odd one will allow a section 75Cb via a paypal transaction.

RFW

Oliver14 wrote: »

Actually it doesn't as if you pay via paypal it's legally counted as a third party transaction. So your dealings are with paypal not the retailer. The majority of banks see it this way only the odd one will allow a section 75Cb via a paypal transaction.

Well the act should cover the transaction you've paid for, so it's the credit card companies passing the buck or attempting to.

balmk

Are you still within the time-frame to open a "not as described" case? You will be required to return the items to the seller at your own cost, and provide PayPal with a tracking number so send them recorded or special (depending on value).

forgotmyname

If you files the complaint on ebay and not paypal. Then ebay will ask them to prove the items are legit not
the other way around.

You went the wrong way around in the dispute. Normally they say file in paypal not ebay but not in this case.

soolin

balmk wrote: »

Are you still within the time-frame to open a "not as described" case? You will be required to return the items to the seller at your own cost, and provide PayPal with a tracking number so send them recorded or special (depending on value).

You can only do one claim- and oP has already tried that.

Oliver14

RFW wrote: »

Well the act should cover the transaction you've paid for, so it's the credit card companies passing the buck or attempting to.

The thing is the transaction is with paypal not the retailer it may be splitting hairs but that's what they do. Though in reality within 45 days paypal protection will cover you for most things.

MKBS

Scott, I'd try the Financial Ombudsman Service. A few years ago it wasn't clear to me whether or not Section 75 applied to PayPal (or why it shouldn't) and PayPal weren't of any help due to their deadline having been passed. I made a complaint via the FOS to my card issuer (having spoken to them by phone on several occasions). First, I received a letter saying they couldn't help, but then the next day another letter from someone higher up saying I had been refunded in full. I'm not sure why, maybe they listened to their recordings where their representative insisted more than once that second-hand items weren't covered by Section 75. It may be a gesture of goodwill rather than a result of legislation, but don't give up yet!

Moneymaker

First thing I do (have done) is report the counterfeit goods to your local police and get an Incident Number. It puts you in a much stronger position if you quote the Incident Number.

shaun_from_Africa

RFW wrote: »

Well the act should cover the transaction you've paid for, so it's the credit card companies passing the buck or attempting to.

The transaction that you have used the credit card for for is the one where you instruct the card company to issue money to Paypal and paypal then give that money to the seller of the goods in question.

The card issuer has no part in the dealings between the buyer and seller.
It's not a case of the card issuer passing the buck as it is clearly stated in the CCA that the transaction that is covered is the one for which the credit card issuer transfers the money (and with a CC payment for a paypal purchase, the CC issuer transfers the money to paypal and not to the seller of the goods)

75.-(1)

If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier or (buyer-card issuer paypal) agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier,
shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor

Scott, I'd try the Financial Ombudsman Service. A few years ago it wasn't clear to me whether or not Section 75 applied to PayPal (or why it shouldn't)

The FOS have decided that payments made via paypal are not covered by S75. (see pages 37/38 of the following)

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/cp/cp05_04.pdf

FOS received a number of complaints against credit-card issuers, where the
general circumstances were as follows:
– Mr Buyer holds a credit card issued by Card-issuer plc.
– Mrs Seller is selling an item on the eBay internet auction site.
– Mr Buyer makes the successful bid for the item being sold by Mrs Seller.
– Payment is to made through PayPal (an FSA-regulated electronic money
institution)
– Mr Buyer opens an account with PayPal.
– Mr Buyer credits that account with a payment from his credit card issued
by Card-issuer plc.
– PayPal transfers the payment from Mr Buyer’s PayPal account to Mrs
Seller’s PayPal account.
– Mrs Seller withdraws the payment from her PayPal account.
– Mrs Seller does not send the paid-for item to Mr Buyer.
– Mr Buyer is unable to recover his payment through PayPal or eBay.

– Mr Buyer claims reimbursement from Card-issuer plc.

In the light of input from these experts, and from the OFT, the FOS concluded

that section 75 did not apply in the circumstances of the cases that had been brought to it.