The Work Programme New Thread

donnajunkie

andy2004 wrote: »

oh to quote the workprogram woman, They didnt stop my benefits the jobcentre did. So its the jobcentre who sanctioned me and had nothing to do with them.

actually it was the DWP who sanctioned me, but when i phoned them up to complain about it, they told me i had to speak with someone at the jobcentre as it was down to THEM, everyone is passing the buck.

it is dwp who sanction you but it is due to the provider telling them whatever it is you are meant to have done wrong. the dwp then decide whether to sanction you. so it is the provider who gets you sanctioned but it is the dwp who make the final decision. it is also the dwp you send your appeal to. appeal forms are available from the jobcentre. if you arent sure about anything seek advice from somewhere like cab, a solicitor, your union etc.
considering how keen people at the jobcentre, dwp or at a work scheme provider are to sanction people it shows what evil sadistic c***s these people are. if i worked for one of them i would give someone a few chances first and only sanction if they were continually taking the pee.

donnajunkie

andy2004 wrote: »

I wonder how many DEATH THREATs the jobcentre get on a weekly basis from the people who they sanction.

i suspect they dont actually say to people i am going to sanction you. they probably do the business on the computer without saying anything to the unlucky victim. although i guess if the sanction comes from your wp adviser then some may take revenge the next time they see them. although most people usually cool down by then.

donnajunkie

andy2004 wrote: »

hell to tell you a true story, i got banned from the jobcentre for 3months wait for it. heres why maybe you can explain it to me.
I walked into the jobcentre, walked up the stairs, said HI to the security guard and handed him my book, so he could put it on the desk of which ever advisor i was seeing that day. Just as I'm about to sit down my name gets called, I walked over to the chair, now I'm a figeter, i fold and unfold my legs cant seem to get comfortable on their chairs, so this particular day, i sit down on the chair and fold both my arms and legs, and then i wait. The woman gets up and walks away, i thinks to myself to get some papers of whatever, maybe a coffee, any way, next thing i'm still waiting for her to come back, and i get a tap on my shoulder, its the guard, he then says "I've been asked to ask you to leave", so being puzzled i get up and walk out, 3 days later i get a letter from the jobcentre solicitors telling me i'm banned from the jobcentre for 3months for my "Threating and aggressive behaviour" ????? after 5 years i'm still trying to work out what is WRONG with the staff at the HAVANT branch.
NOTE: I didnt say 1 word to the advisor

didnt you appeal? if they have cctv it shouldnt be hard to prove your innocence.

fiddlesticks

kazzah60 wrote: »

so if I understand you correctly - the government simply hands out money to this company once a "client" stops signing on - what if they died? what if they moved abroad ? the provider could claim a "success " fee of up to £3,600

that system would be open to MASSIVE abuse - and even I don't think the Government is naive enough to pay WP providers for people simply dropping off the benefits system.

Another flaw in your argument is this - my husband was only signing on for NI contributions - he did not receive any JSA - but he was still referred to the WP- on a mandatory contract - so why was he referred if he wasn't getting any cash benefit?

Alos - not sure if you work for the Job Centre or a WP provider but a friend of mine does and it was she who advised my husband to withdraw consent to share his information and not to tell the WP provider when he got a job so that THEY couldn't claim the funding for having found him work

and as for keeping in contact with the provider - these people hounded my husband and phoned our home at all hours of the day and night to get him in for the most useless and meaningless "job search activities" - his advisor admitted that my husbands area of working was " well over my head" and she didn't even understand what his job was - and it's not that specialised!




things that were offered to him;

• checking his CV - which was a waste of time because our mortgage insurance provider offered him a 2 day course on CV presentation and job applications run by a professional recruitment agency - no charge
• a work benefit assessment - to show how much better off working he would be than claiming benefits - he didn't get any JSA or other benefits- so therefore a waste of time
• training on how to conduct yourself at an interview - my husband is a senior manager - he knows what to do and what NOT to do - so pointless
• a 2 hour session cold calling potential employers such as local Government offices, NHS authorities, major Charities etc - all of whom said exactly what my husband told her they would - any vacancies they have are advertised on their websites

NONE of this was in any way conducive to helping my husband back into work - and I don't see why a person who doesn't even understand what my husbands job is needs to contact him every few months - WHAT can she offer him that he can't already do or access himself?

Which provider was he with?The WP is a numbers game. Its never going to help everyone into work. I'm sorry that you feel it didn't help your husband.
It helped me. I was unemployed for 4 years with a serious mental health issue. I now work a job that pays more then NMW, something I never though possible. I have never seen any one at my local office treated with anything other than friendliness. I do not work for the JCP or the WP.

dontone

andy2004 wrote: »

hell to tell you a true story, i got banned from the jobcentre for 3months wait for it. heres why maybe you can explain it to me.
I walked into the jobcentre, walked up the stairs, said HI to the security guard and handed him my book, so he could put it on the desk of which ever advisor i was seeing that day. Just as I'm about to sit down my name gets called, I walked over to the chair, now I'm a figeter, i fold and unfold my legs cant seem to get comfortable on their chairs, so this particular day, i sit down on the chair and fold both my arms and legs, and then i wait. The woman gets up and walks away, i thinks to myself to get some papers of whatever, maybe a coffee, any way, next thing i'm still waiting for her to come back, and i get a tap on my shoulder, its the guard, he then says "I've been asked to ask you to leave", so being puzzled i get up and walk out, 3 days later i get a letter from the jobcentre solicitors telling me i'm banned from the jobcentre for 3months for my "Threating and aggressive behaviour" ????? after 5 years i'm still trying to work out what is WRONG with the staff at the HAVANT branch.
NOTE: I didnt say 1 word to the advisor

I agree that some of the staff are a bit too keen to point out people who they THINK "may" cause trouble. I was in my J/C once and there were hardly any staff on the shop floor (about 2), and there was about 10 of us who were waiting well over our time slots. One young lad asked one of the staff wandering around(with coffee mug in hand) if they were short staffed and she said "no, everybody is in" and he replied "well where are they all?" He was very polite, no aggression. Next thing, the security staff were all stood there watching him.
Turned out all the staff were on their tea break - they all went at the same time :mad:

Pont

Who?_me? wrote: »

2. The staff are completly unmotivated, they only have one group that they are likely to show any interest in - those they can do something for. So, if you are qualified and experianced, they are not interested, if you are long term sick, they aren't interested either. Unless you are amber, you are not going to get anything.
Wrong - The Work Programme love people who are qualified and experienced as it makes life much easier to find jobs for these people. I agree 'Reds' are mostly put on the back burner (never worked, no qualifications, no inclination to work), 'Ambers' are difficult as they want to work, but little chance in the job markets of today. Long term sick are referred back as they should be ESA customers.

This is all the fault of the government who have one aim and one aim only - to reduce the welfare bill. They don't care whoes lives they wreck or souls they destroy in the process.
The job centre have two roles - they can help some people, the rest who are capbable of helping themselves, they ignore and just police what they are doing the minimum for the JSA.
The work program will fail for a whole host of reasons. My advice is to just accept that they aren't going to help you, and being ignored is a good sign.
Well to be frank - the Welfare bill has to be reduced - the current state of play is that it's unsustainable.

I was asked to go on a 2 week course on how to right a CV, I pointed out that I could teach the course and they took me off. With the best will in the world I feel I need to point out that you don't 'right' a CV, rather you write a CV. When you're saying you 'could teach the course', with all due respect I don't feel (as somebody who does teach various courses) this is so.
They aren't completly unflexible, they are just very put upon, have unrealistic targets and as we are beaten into jumping through their hoops, they are also being beaten into jumping through hoops too.
This I totally agee with!

Let's not forget, people are 'put on the Work Programme' after failing to find work after a determined length of time. If you believe that we, who work for The Work Programme, are out to make your lives difficult, this isn't so. Our office gets really good results, and I hope change peoples lives for the better.

It isn't a perfect system, but what is? If you feel that advisors are a nasty lot of *^&$%"£s, who want to sanction job seekers at a drop of a hat, this isn't so (in our case). We have to inform JCP if customers fail to attend - no exceptions. Very often we also state reasons why a job seeker should not be sanctioned albeit they failed to attend - this is usually because WP advisors actually get to know their customers!

Rough stats I know, but in our office 50% of customers are eager to find work and hate every day they are not working - the other 50% have been claiming for 10 or 20 years and have no intention of ever working.

It's a difficult job, and as already posted 'target driven' (which I believe is wrong). However, most of us employed by The Work Progamme are not smug gits, rather the case of 'there but for the Grace of God go I'!

Don't tar us all with the same brush - we don't tar all job seekers with the same brush!

lizzie157

KevInChester wrote: »

If you don't need help with basic maths, English and writing a CV I wouldn't bother. Add into that the fact you are wanting to work voluntarily anyway, you might as well just set your own placement up and on your terms.

I don't know too much about this particular scheme but thought you'd appreciate an answer of sorts.

Thanks Have searched the internet and can't find much about it at all. I just didn't want to be stuck doing things I can already do. I'm thinking I'll sort myself out.

kazzah60

Pont wrote: »

Let's not forget, people are 'put on the Work Programme' after failing to find work after a determined length of time. If you believe that we, who work for The Work Programme, are out to make your lives difficult, this isn't so. Our office gets really good results, and I hope change peoples lives for the better.

It isn't a perfect system, but what is? If you feel that advisors are a nasty lot of *^&$%"£s, who want to sanction job seekers at a drop of a hat, this isn't so (in our case). We have to inform JCP if customers fail to attend - no exceptions. Very often we also state reasons why a job seeker should not be sanctioned albeit they failed to attend - this is usually because WP advisors actually get to know their customers!

Rough stats I know, but in our office 50% of customers are eager to find work and hate every day they are not working - the other 50% have been claiming for 10 or 20 years and have no intention of ever working.

It's a difficult job, and as already posted 'target driven' (which I believe is wrong). However, most of us employed by The Work Progamme are not smug gits, rather the case of 'there but for the Grace of God go I'!

Don't tar us all with the same brush - we don't tar all job seekers with the same brush!

at no point have I ever stated or thought that the advisors are nasty or anything similar
in our experience they are NOT qualified in any way, shape or form to find positions for people who are seeking "professional level jobs" - I don't say this to be snobby or to belittle people who have had satisfactory results.

But when an "advisor" asks a client what roles they are seeking, and their response to the phrase
" 3rd sector project management roles"
is
" oh, thats way over my head, I don't even know what that is"

how on earth is that person equipped to advise the client of how to improve their job searches?
my husband works 8 hours a day sourcing and applying for jobs - to spend 2 hours cold calling national charities, and organisations seeking employment is an absolute wast of time - especially when he KNOWS their jobs are ALWAYS advertiesed on their websites or with recruitment agencies

the type of employers my husband is applying to are unlikley to have any roles advertised or available through a work programme provider

there is a CHRONIC paucity of jobs out there and some people may have "failed" to have secured a role for themselves- but it doesn't automatically follow that they need help or advice from someone who doesn't even understand what roles the person is applying for

oh - and my husband applied for a job as an advisor with his work programme advisor - he wasn't even given the courtesy of an e mail, letter or phone call to say they weren't interested in his application - thats how helpful and keen his provider was!

Pont

kazzah60 - My post was not aimed at you, or anyone else in particular (other than my quotes).

In my experience re: professional jobs, we do have several people who have had long standing professional careers and/or excellent academic qualifications. However, it still stands that if these people have not secured employment after a certain length of time they are referred to The Work Programme - we don't make the referrals - JCP do.

In such cases we very often have to suggest that after attempting to secure such jobs without success, they perhaps have to widen their search or perhaps to lower their sights. This type of suggestion doesn't (understandedly) often go down too well. Where does that leave us? We're charged with trying to get people back into work who very often won't accept that at present, these 'less desirable' occupations, are the only options available.

There is no excuse for not giving an applicant the common courtesy of a reply to an application - Work Programme or not. That would NOT occur in our office.

kazzah60

fiddlesticks wrote: »

Which provider was he with?The WP is a numbers game. Its never going to help everyone into work. I'm sorry that you feel it didn't help your husband.
It helped me. I was unemployed for 4 years with a serious mental health issue. I now work a job that pays more then NMW, something I never though possible. I have never seen any one at my local office treated with anything other than friendliness. I do not work for the JCP or the WP.

My husbands WP provider was Serco who sub contracted the work to Sarina Russo

My husband wouldn't have minded attending once a fortnight to offer evidence of his job searches - but his advisor had him attend 6 appointments in a 9 day period - all of which cost us money as car parking is very expensive where we live and his travel allowance amount to £1 for each trip

we have no public transport so driving was a necessity and for each trip he was paying £3.80 for car parking as a minimum with only £1 travel being re-imbursed - and they couldn't offer any facilities we didn't have at home.