What temp do you run your boiler at?

Canucklehead

Mr_Ted wrote: »

Lots of great numbers there and legislation :T

Just one problem, I think someone once said that numbers can be manipulated to mean anything

There is also the consideration that on a new installation there is lots of guff about "GOOD PRACTICES"
If it is good practice why is not a legal requirement :eek:

It is also dependant on an installer who puts "GOOD PRACTICE" into practice and does what is "GOOD PRACTICE" before PROFIT and installs a good installation, THIS from experience is very seldom the case :eek:

I can assure anyone that the proffesionalism of the Gas Industry, even with the apparent stringent regulation, IS NOT as it should be, BUYER BEWARE.
If it were I would still be in a job, as I would not as a WORKS SERVICES MANAGER pass many of the shoddy installations I found, and that was in this day and age NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT within the :rotfl:organisation:rotfl:I previously worked :mad:

Hi: welcome to MSE. No need to shout..we can hear you in the cheap seats.;) I hear what you are saying, most of which I've said (and others) on here over the years.

I would welcome the return of gas apprenticeships and stricter (and consistent) regulation of the industry.

HTH

Canucklehead

Cardew

Mr_Ted wrote: »

Run you system 24/7 so that the property remains heated and doesnt need to heat up from cold as it would if you set time periods, when the house is unoccupied as you are out at work the heat will be maintained as it is also the use of doors and windows that lose heat to a property.


Its down to personal choice but most people I spoke to over the years said that 24/7 produced the lowest bills???

I am sorry Mr Ted but that advice to run your system 24/7 for cheapest bills is absolutely incorrect and very bad advice on a money saving website

There are numerous sources that will state you are incorrect - including the Energy Saving Trust.

The lower the temperature and the shorter the time heating is on - the lower the bills.

Your 'theory' contradicts the Laws of Thermodynamics and it has been raised countless times on MSE. Let us take an example:

If you were to leave your house unoccupied for 2 years would you leave the heating on 24/7 so the heat will be maintained and it will be cheaper than switching it on when you re-occupy as you do not have to heat up from cold?

How about 1 year? 1 month? 1 week? 1 day? 12 hours? 1 hour? at what point do the Laws of Thermodynamics cease to apply?

Mr_Ted

:T

Then my house and the way I heat it are the point because it was dearer to have my heating on timed than it is to run it the way I say I do.

You can have a boiler on all day long at a low heat output and it may never heat up depending on heat loss, that would be dearer than actually heating it up and then maintaining the heat at a high temperature output of the system?

Until the examples are run simultaniously on 2 exact same systems and propertys then I dispute your theory due to what I experience and as others have!

And if we are talking about theory the last 2 paragraphs are pure lunacy in there pertinence to the question, although I would recommend that a minimum heat level is maintained to prevent damage to a properties integrity if left for a long period?

However I think we are talking about occupancey?

Pincher

Check out the movie "Soldier", starring Kurt Russell as a veteran soldier literally thrown on the scrap heap. Warms the cockles of any old timer craftsman who got sidelined by bottom line driven line managers.

Right now, my boiler output is 50 degrees, and the return pipe feels like 30 degrees. Outdoor temperature is 6 degrees, indoor 18 degrees, target temperature 20. The weather compensation mechanism is working beautifully. I'm getting the most heat out of the gas I pay for, and I don't have to fiddle with the boiler, because it works it out for itself.

Mr_Ted

:rotfl:

Now your talking a different subject that not many Domestic Gas Engineers understand.

Compensators and Optimiser controls

they are used widely in the Scandinavian countries and here in Commercial properties and are not particularly availble or popular in the Domestic market.

Why, the Price?:eek:

Thre is also another aspect of control that is never given credence for the same reason, zoning of heating systems in domestic properties!
Mine is, seperate upstair and downstairs zones each individually controlled by RF timer/thermostats, but the system runs 24/7 and thermostats are never set below 18;)

Heat rises so the upstairs zone is hardly ever on

Because it was instaled by a Professional, ME

Pincher

Mr_Ted wrote: »

Compensators and Optimiser controls

they are used widely in the Scandinavian countries and here in Commercial properties and are not particularly availble or popular in the Domestic market.

Why, the Price?:eek:

With Glowworm, you just have to buy

1 x Smart Wiring Centre £62
1 x Climapro £52
1 x Outdoor Sensor £25

to activate weather compensation.

Without weather compensation, you still have to buy a two channel programmer any way, for say £50. So the difference in parts is about £90.

Mr_Ted wrote: »

Thre is also another aspect of control that is never given credence for the same reason, zoning of heating systems in domestic properties!
Mine is, seperate upstair and downstairs zones each individually controlled by RF timer/thermostats, but the system runs 24/7 and thermostats are never set below 18;)

Heat rises so the upstairs zone is hardly ever on

Because it was instaled by a Professional, ME

I have four zone valves, two for hot water cylinders, and two for heating: ground and first floor. I use a Honeywell ST9400C two channel programmer for the first floor heating and cylinder zone valves.

The Glowworm control system is a low voltage setup, so integrating the extra zone valves was somewhat tricky. Glowworm Smart Wiring Centre example wiring diagrams only support one DHW zone valve, and one heating zone valve.

Brummie71

Cardew wrote: »

I am sorry Mr Ted but that advice to run your system 24/7 for cheapest bills is absolutely incorrect and very bad advice on a money saving website

There are numerous sources that will state you are incorrect - including the Energy Saving Trust.

The lower the temperature and the shorter the time heating is on - the lower the bills.

Your 'theory' contradicts the Laws of Thermodynamics and it has been raised countless times on MSE. Let us take an example:

If you were to leave your house unoccupied for 2 years would you leave the heating on 24/7 so the heat will be maintained and it will be cheaper than switching it on when you re-occupy as you do not have to heat up from cold?

How about 1 year? 1 month? 1 week? 1 day? 12 hours? 1 hour? at what point do the Laws of Thermodynamics cease to apply?

Have to agree absolutely with Cardew. Running a heating system to produce heat that you cannot use - because you are out or wrapped up in a warm bed - is utterly pointless and is a waste of money in every house where it has been tried. If yours is different, then that's fine, but I can't work out how.

Weather compensation and a proper programmable room stat are worth looking at, but don't produce heat that you can't benefit from.

Brummie71

Mr_Ted wrote: »

:rotfl:


Thre is also another aspect of control that is never given credence for the same reason, zoning of heating systems in domestic properties!

I think you'll find that the current Part L Regs give it a lot of credence, to the point where it is a requirement.

RedFraggle

I've been on the fence on the "run it 24/7" debate for several years now and I also have friends who swear it's cheaper. What I have noticed is that if I am at home all day and leave the heating on (override the programmable room stat), once the house is up to temperature the heating only clicks on about every hour to hour and a half for about 15 to 20 mins at a time for the rest of the day. It's up to temp by 9, and it's set to go off by 10 so that's 13 hours, so it'll come on 10.4 times (based on 1.25 hour interval), for 15 to 20 minutes (so an average(ish) of 18 minutes) which is 187 minutes which is 3 hours 7 minutes. When I am not here and the heating is off (with the room stat set to maintain 14 C) when the heating kicks in in the evening on the timer it will run continously for a couple of hours (from 4:30) to warm the house up, and then click in and out as during the day. So 2 hours to warm up then from 6:30 til 10 doing the every 1.25 hours would be about 2 hours 50 minutes. So for our house and heating I think it makes very little difference which way you do it. We are fortuneate that our house holds the heat well (1930's semi, with decent windows (the curtains of which are closed at dusk), doors, loft insulation and CWI).

In fact I just timed it and it was just on for precisely 5 minutes before switching itself off again

HappyMJ

RedFraggle wrote: »

I've been on the fence on the "run it 24/7" debate for several years now and I also have friends who swear it's cheaper. What I have noticed is that if I am at home all day and leave the heating on (override the programmable room stat), once the house is up to temperature the heating only clicks on about every hour to hour and a half for about 15 to 20 mins at a time for the rest of the day. It's up to temp by 9, and it's set to go off by 10 so that's 13 hours, so it'll come on 10.4 times (based on 1.25 hour interval), for 15 to 20 minutes (so an average(ish) of 18 minutes) which is 187 minutes which is 3 hours 7 minutes. When I am not here and the heating is off (with the room stat set to maintain 14 C) when the heating kicks in in the evening on the timer it will run continously for a couple of hours (from 4:30) to warm the house up, and then click in and out as during the day. So 2 hours to warm up then from 6:30 til 10 doing the every 1.25 hours would be about 2 hours 50 minutes. So for our house and heating I think it makes very little difference which way you do it. We are fortuneate that our house holds the heat well (1930's semi, with decent windows (the curtains of which are closed at dusk), doors, loft insulation and CWI).

In fact I just timed it and it was just on for precisely 5 minutes before switching itself off again

How big are your bills? 5 minutes every hour for 24 hours a day 6 months of the year a 15kW boiler would use 5,460kWh per year costing you only £16.50 per month at 3.64p per unit. I'm assuming it's 15kW as you said it would take 2 hours to heat up your 1930's house from cold, my 12kW boiler takes about 30 minutes to heat my 3 bedroom house from cool, how big is your boiler? Average gas bills are triple that at around £50 per month so I find it difficult to understand. The heat losses from my house are around 3kW per hour so I need to add 3kW of heat back every hour to maintain the temperature. If your boiler is 15kW then your hourly heat losses are only 1.25kW. That's about the hourly heat loss from my lounge only.