Deed of Variation for Lease problem

NTP

Hi all,

I hope you can help me with some insights of my current situation. There are lots of knowledgeable people here so thank you in advance.

My problem comprises of starting (and almost have it finished) a loft conversion without realising that the loft space is not mine and I had to get a deed of variation to my lease. Only now when I am now selling my place I have found what terrible mistake I have made.

The conversion has all the right building control documentation and it was surprising to me that the building control office never actually asked me the question of whether I own the loft. The freeholder is the council.

Now I am just about to write to them explaining my mistake and ask for a deed of variation in retrospection. Am I right to expect that they will not be very obstructive since at the end of the day the property will be upgraded and therefore add value to the freehold and I will (or the potential buyer) pay more tax? What is the best way to approach this? I know I am wrong but I have followed all the building control regulations needed and planning permission was granted.

My plan is to get started a draft deed of variation to the lease and agreement on my freeholder side to the loft conversion and then pass the documentation to the new buyer.

Any thoughts?

Richard_Webster

Careful how you approach freeholder. If they know you are selling they have you over barrel and may want £xxxxx!

Who is freeholder? Some well known ones can be Googled and you will see from other people's comments how unreasonable they are.

NTP

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Careful how you approach freeholder. If they know you are selling they have you over barrel and may want £xxxxx!

Who is freeholder? Some well known ones can be Googled and you will see from other people's comments how unreasonable they are.

Thanks Richard, I will be careful not to mention the sale.

The freeholder is Lewisham council. I have heard that I can make a Retrospective Permission To Alter Lease.

Do you think I will need proffesional advice on this one? Or shall I simply write to them and atach all the necessary documentation?

Richard_Webster

Councils are not likely to rip you off but will be bureaucratic about whether or not to give a consent.

Is this a purpose built Council block or a one-off converted house that they happen to own?

Suspect more likely to be amenable in latter case than former.

NTP

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Councils are not likely to rip you off but will be bureaucratic about whether or not to give a consent.

Is this a purpose built Council block or a one-off converted house that they happen to own?

Suspect more likely to be amenable in latter case than former.

This is a flat in a house that they own. They also own the other flat (only 2 in the house) but rent it. In terms of consent, will it help that all of my neighbours (some of them leaseholders to the council) have done loft conversions. All the houses are identical.

propertyman

Building control are not interested in ownership or title, even if they are part of the council., to them it's just more bricks and mortar.

You issues comes in two parts both time related. That you have breached your lease by altering to form access, and I suspect a generalised covenant in relation to what you do in and around the building, may have been waived as some time has passed and have paid rent and servile charge, and if your building is obviously a council estate, that the BC officer is an agent of the council and they could then in court be deemed to know about it.

The second is to whether enough time has passed for adverse possession. Be careful as the councils deemed to know issue then works against you.

Neither of these issues should be "tried at home" as they used to say on TV, you need professional advice to look at the circumstances to see if you can claim ownership, or the best way to get consent without causing them to seek its removal and reinstatement or charge you for the acquisition of the property. Councils are funny that way, you can never say how they will react. If constructed correctly any sensible landlord would ask for the money...

The issues you raise about adding to the value of the freehold and extra council tax are irrelevant to the consideration of these sorts of matters, sorry they just are, so do forget them, no matter how convincing they might seem to you.

Richard_Webster

In terms of consent, will it help that all of my neighbours (some of them leaseholders to the council) have done loft conversions. All the houses are identical.

It may do, but are you sure that the neighbours got consent themselves?

propertyman

It certainly rules out any basis for reinstatement on the argument " we do not want to establish a precedent".

NTP

Richard_Webster wrote: »

It may do, but are you sure that the neighbours got consent themselves?

Yes, I have been told they do.

NTP

Thanks PropertyMan,

I think it is best that I write to them explaining my situation and hope that they will show some understanding and reconsider considering a variation to the lease retrospectively.

Once they send me their reply i will then consider if I should seek specialist advice.

propertyman wrote: »

Building control are not interested in ownership or title, even if they are part of the council., to them it's just more bricks and mortar.

You issues comes in two parts both time related. That you have breached your lease by altering to form access, and I suspect a generalised covenant in relation to what you do in and around the building, may have been waived as some time has passed and have paid rent and servile charge, and if your building is obviously a council estate, that the BC officer is an agent of the council and they could then in court be deemed to know about it.

The second is to whether enough time has passed for adverse possession. Be careful as the councils deemed to know issue then works against you.

Neither of these issues should be "tried at home" as they used to say on TV, you need professional advice to look at the circumstances to see if you can claim ownership, or the best way to get consent without causing them to seek its removal and reinstatement or charge you for the acquisition of the property. Councils are funny that way, you can never say how they will react. If constructed correctly any sensible landlord would ask for the money...

The issues you raise about adding to the value of the freehold and extra council tax are irrelevant to the consideration of these sorts of matters, sorry they just are, so do forget them, no matter how convincing they might seem to you.

propertyman

NTP wrote: »

Thanks PropertyMan,

I think it is best that I write to them explaining my situation and hope that they will show some understanding and reconsider considering a variation to the lease retrospectively.

Once they send me their reply i will then consider if I should seek specialist advice.

It is my view that you don't do that, and take advice on your options first.

I cannot discount that they may simply agree, but the chances are against it, as are a perverse decision such as to remove it, which they may have every right to do.

If it is say a year before adverse possession could be claimed, then it would be foolish to write to them now.........