confused over fault

chez000

So had an accident today - a collision with a bus:(

Only cosmetic damage to my car - no noticeable damage to the bus so it could have been worse.

but

Im confused over if I can be in any (feasible or actual) way responsible.

The bus driver was adamant that it was my fault (as was one of the passengers) as I should have given way to the bus - I disagree and am hopeful I will be vindicated by the bus CCTV.

This is what happened

I was in the right lane going right on a roundabout, the bus was in the left lane going left.
As I start to turn with the roundabout the bus is passing me and going left.
The bus drifts into my lane and swipes at my car.

Im sure I was on the roundabout before the bus, I dont see how I could have been behind the bus given that the eventual gap was too small for my car hence the collision.

However if I was on after and was passing the bus in the other lane does this make a difference? even though the bus came into my lane

I ask as the bus driver was adamant I should have let him go round first saying it is the highway code.

I know the highway code states that
222 - large vehicles need extra room
223 - give priority when they pull away from stops

but these arent musts and there shoudl have been plenty of room e.g a lane each


thanks for reading

mikey72

Normally the vehicle on the left is at fault, due to them going "straight across" and squeezing the right lane lane.

chez000

mikey72 wrote: »

Normally the vehicle on the left is at fault, due to them going "straight across" and squeezing the right lane lane.

yeah thats exactly what I thought/think, its just the aggressive insistence of the bus driver makes me wonder?

When I spoke with my insurance I explained it as above, but now Im wondering if i was on the roundabout after the bus (still sure i wasnt).

I guess the main thing is I dont want my claim to hinge on who was on the roundabout first

InsideInsurance

All roundabout accidents are a pain to deal with with a disproportionate ending up 50/50, and not unusually I disagree with Mikey72's comments. Firstly whilst people in left hand lanes do "cut the corner" at the same time people in right hand lanes swing wide. The relevance of cutting the corner is also diminished on the basis the bus was turning left not going straight ahead.

The highway code is a guidebook and whilst some elements are based on law (legislation) the majority of it is not. It can be useful in helping to determine fault in accidents because generally it is what a "reasonable person" should do but common practice can over ride it.

I assume that you both pulled on to the roundabout from the same exit and roughly at the same time. If I had CCTV of the incident I would more be looking to what happened at the approach to the roundabout than who actually got away first. A reasonable person does know that large vehicles go wide and if you came from behind the vehicle (ie they were at the roundabout first) then this would be a concern. Likewise would need to see just how wide they went to see if it was reasonable too.

All "professional" drivers tend to be a pain to deal with at the scene of accidents. A lot will come down to what the bus drivers witnesses say occurred as CCTV tends to be really bad quality.

Crazy_Jamie

Speaking in general terms, unless traffic was heavy and you were queuing on to the roundabout it is probably more likely that you moved up from behind the bus rather than vice versa, simply because cars tend to accelerate quicker than buses do from stationary. Of course that is a general statement rather than an absolute rule, but it is in your interests to try to remember as much as you can about the positioning of your vehicle to try to work out which way round this happened. You mentioned that you couldn't have come up behind the bus because there wasn't enough room, hence the collision, but that gap would only have narrowed once the bus began to turn. It is entirely feasible in principle that you moved alongside the bus as it was turning, and the gap closed on you as you were moving up on the bus.

As InsideInsurance quite rightly stated, roundabout accidents can be notoriously difficult to deal with from a liability standpoint, with findings of shared liability not being unusual at all.

korky69

InsideInsurance wrote: »

All roundabout accidents are a pain to deal with with a disproportionate ending up 50/50

Id echo the above, i once got hit on one, 100% certain the other driver cut across and hit my rear side, he then got bogus witness who then refused to even discuss the matter with my insurers, and so it dragged on,
in the end, much to my dismay it was settled 50/50 even though i had a decent shout at proving the witness was bogus.

Id get on to the highways or whoever and see if there is CCTV asap

alistair.long

Firstly I disagree with Insideinsurance the Highway code is a guide and therefore comon practice is wrong. I say this because I have seen on so many occasions that the judge refers to it to make it easier.
e.g. there is a road big enough to be a dual carriageway, there is centre line in the road and by the traffic lights for 2 cars there are 2 lanes. People make two lines that go back over 50-100m. A lorry back end hit a car when it was turning and the fault was the standing car. Judge decided it was a 1 lane road and the other car should not have been next to him.

It comes down to who was more professional. If I was making the decision I would say, in the first instance when the accident happened, the buss should need to be aware of the cars around him, and then it would be his fault.
If however it was ovious that your path was going to close, and you could have avoided the accident by stopping then it would be mostly your fault.

It all depends on how you say it and how somebody understands it.
If you were hit with the front then the front of the bus would have damage, if you were hit with the back, then the back of the bus would have damage, did you not take pictures?

I think the answer your looking for is, roundabouts are complicated and also busses will fight all the way.

Hope this helps