Storage Heaters - keep them switched on all the time?

Richie-from-the-Boro

lupine79 wrote: »

Ok, i can see the 13a issue is more urgent than i thought. I'll speak to the landlord today...if i know him though (and after 2 weeks he's made it clear what kind of guy he is - nice but lax), i doubt he'll invest anything in the shop. But i will get it seen to. I have a mate who's an electrician - he wired my house - and is certified to do industrial.

Richie - are you saying that once wired into the mains, the storage heaters come at midnight and go off at 7am, religiously? So even if you wanted to power it outside of E7 hours, you couldn't? That's good if so.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to temporarily the timer for now though. I'm guessing that if i lower the input - set to 7 at the minute - that the power consumption and thus strain on the plug will be less, and so the danger should be less.

There are about 10 open shops in the yard, i know not all of them have storage heaters but some of them do, and use them. I'd better have a word with these guys too.

Thanks everyone. Saving money and lives!!

I'm not clear about what you have, that's why I titled my response 'assuming E7 storage'

Does your heater look like this or this .. .. a photo of yours would help people here decide if you are (1) E7 night store or (2) E10 Panel heater.

This business of the 13a plug is concerning / confusing people here, night store .. .. like cookers should be on their its own circuit / ring and should be controlled by its own fuse at the consumer unit.

Yes the supply side of E7 is determined by your supplier and can vary at any point in the 12 month cycle by an hour or so, regulated by the suppler not yourself. Ask the other folks in the yard what they have and how they 'best use' its capacity to heat their shop!

lupine79

Here are some pics - the input/output controls are the only controls on the unit by the way.
It doesn't surprise me that the heater isn't wired in and that it's supposed to be - like i said the manager isn't particularly on the ball. But these are old heaters and it's an old courtyard, so i'm guessing they've been used this way for years, possibly decades. I mentioned the fact that these should be wired into the mains to the shop opposite today, and the two proprietors just looked at me blankly. It's that kind of place. Didn't get chance the speak to the manager as i was on my own all day but will chase it up on monday.

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e338/lupine2/StorageHeaterDownstairs/

Richie-from-the-Boro

lupine79 wrote: »

Here are some pics - the input/output controls are the only controls on the unit by the way.
It doesn't surprise me that the heater isn't wired in and that it's supposed to be - like i said the manager isn't particularly on the ball. But these are old heaters and it's an old courtyard, so i'm guessing they've been used this way for years, possibly decades. I mentioned the fact that these should be wired into the mains to the shop opposite today, and the two proprietors just looked at me blankly. It's that kind of place. Didn't get chance the speak to the manager as i was on my own all day but will chase it up on monday.

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e338/lupine2/StorageHeaterDownstairs/

Aye they're bog standard E7 / or / E10 storage heaters. The photo of the Input / Output speaks for itself .. .. the more cheap overnight you input the more stored heat you have available to you during the day.

Take for example a 2.5kWh rad, it will have a rough estimate 7 hours x 2.55 = 17.85 kWh x 4.6p or whatever price you pay, this means from that one heater you have a store of 17.85 kWh of cheap leccy.

The photo of the Input / Output speaks for itself .. .. the less you open the output [ damper ] which is nothing more than a metal flap, the longer the cheap stored heat will last you.

There's the conundrum .. .. if the cheap overnight heating is not sufficient to last the day then you need more storage, otherwise the frequency and duration of supplementary halogen / fan / heating / at the full daytime rate goes up and up.

Now back to the 13a socket thing are you sure these heaters are plugged into a 3 pin plug the same as for example the kettle ?, or are they using a switch similar to this ?

NOTE - if they've been used that way for years they are probably safe, they may be well out of spec, they may even be against the law, but we can assume after all this time they are safe !

lupine79

They are most definitely plugged into 3 pin plug sockets. (I've got them plugged into a timer, coming on 12-7.)
We are changing opening times from 9-5 as the yard is very quiet by 4.30so opening til 6 is pointless - this should mean that we benefit a bit more from the stored heat earlier on.
However, it's definitely not enough heat for the shop - it lasted long enough, but it just wasn't warm enough. Opened the flap to 4 when i got in at 12, then opened it to 7 in the afternoon. Had the Halogen on all day, 3 bars, and by 5.30 the shop was noticeably colder. I'm almost certain i'm getting a small oil radiator for the cash desk bit, and possibly something else for by the changing rooms, as it's a vintage clothing shop so it needs to be fairly toasty. (I can't really afford to spend into the 100's on another storage heater, but i suppose in the long run, it may be more economical.)

The shop was actually cut off from leccy supply when we took over (landlord neglected to tell us this, claims he didn't know), so he had to get us reconnected (said it would be quicker than me ringing N Power). We're on a lousy tariff (i think) - 18p day, 9p night rate - and i can't change for a month apparently.

Any idea how i find out the kwh rating of the heater? It'd be nice to know exactly what the charge up costs. And just run the calculation by me again...if they are in fact 2.5kwh, and i'm paying 9p for 7 hours. It'd be 17.85kwh x 9p...what is the bottom line cost?

Thanks yet again. I've never put so much bloody thought into heating before!!!

lupine79

Using this calculator:
http://www.ukpower.co.uk/tools/running_costs_electricity/

..the heater will cost £25 per month on a 7 hour cycle each day. The add the standing charge of £30 a month. And the Halogen heater & radiator on the DAYTIME rate...jeez, my girlfriend better sell a lot of clothes!!!

Richie-from-the-Boro

If you are cold you open the flap, if you open the flap you run out of cheap stuff, if you run out of cheap stuff you use expensive [ halogen ] stuff, if you do that you do not have enough stored cheap heat in the first place.

You should have read & photographed your meter before you even moved in. If you have not done so, do it in the morning and keep a record. Find out who your supplier is and get your actual start figure and real costs per kWh. Your landlord may have put you on one of their 'favoured' special landlord tariffs [ they pay money back to the landlord ] instead of one of the big suppliers.

You will have two readings, a day reading and a night reading, you will need to know the price for each, any discounts for DD / internet billing / standing charge / sending meter readings yourself etc. You need to get a grip on this one my friend. As for the extra rad .. .. look on ebay / set it to 'nearest first' & collect only and you can get second hand cheap even at this time of the year .. .. in the summer months you can get 10 of them for a quid each on a collect.

grahamc2003

lupine79 wrote: »

Using this calculator:
http://www.ukpower.co.uk/tools/running_costs_electricity/

..the heater will cost £25 per month on a 7 hour cycle each day. The add the standing charge of £30 a month. And the Halogen heater & radiator on the DAYTIME rate...jeez, my girlfriend better sell a lot of clothes!!!

It looks to me like a 3.6kW model.

If it's on a trimeswitch between 00:00 and 07:00 you're probably using it partly in peak times. My times (seeboard) are 00:30 to 07:30).

It won't be consuming electricity for all the time - it has thermostats to stop overheating - the heat from the elements take time to be absorbed nto the storage medium. So you're probably using something like 5.5h cheap rate and 0.5h peak rate, equating to about 20kWh cheap rate and 1.8kWh peak rate, costing you £1.78 for the night units and 32p for the day units, or £2.10 per day (under those assumptions).

Your cost isn't your main worry. You really need to get your electrician mate around quickly to check it out. If on a normal ring main (even worse on a spur) it's dangerous, especially through a plugin timeswitch. The circuit to a storage heater should be dedicated and of thicker cable than normal 13A wiring.

I doubt it's legal these days for a landlord to rent out a property with the wiring yours appears to have.

macman

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