School uniform

Becles

My point is you can't have a rule for different sets of people on different days depending on what their circumstances are and where they might be rushing off to.

How do you determine who has a 'right' to take children to school in cars? How do people know which days you are working and which days you are not? What about non-workers who have an appointment? Or people who are feeling unwell?

My point is you either have a blanket ban that applies to everyone, and everyone has to make lifestyle adjustments to suit. Or you don't bother and leave things as they are which is putting childrens lives at risk through lack of exercise and increased danger on the roads around school.

You just can't have rules that suit you personally depending on your daily schedule. On the days you use the car, you are just as guilty of putting childrens road safety at risk as the person who uses a car everyday through laziness.

magoogy

to get back to the original point - you are sooo right if someone chooses to go to a certain school they should go by their rules and not try to change them to fit in with them.....the recent muslim girl being one example......

Pal

I wonder if they are buying black trousers in order that they can be worn as "smart" clothes to other, non-school, occasions. Weddings, for example?

It really annoys me when Mrs Pal changes part of her uniform.

gk172

My gripe with uniforms is the ones the school sells, why are they so expensive? and some might not be able to afford it or some like me cant justifie the differance just because they have the school emblem on the hoodie/polo shirt/jumper example why a polo shirt retails for about £2 and can be bought via school for £8 - they still stain the same and need replaced as often, as for the jumpers the ones our school get fade very fast so again need replacing. This is a public school not a private one.

Poppy9

gk172


I agree with you about schools forcing you to buy sub standard goods at inflated prices. A tip from a friend who had been given a load of 2nd hand school sweatshirts was to machine dye the lot. It only works if they have the waxed type logo not the embroidered type (though you could try covering this with some short of wax to protect). Hers came up fantastically and the colour lasted. When our school had severely fading sweatshirts that shrunk supplied parents complained to head so much he changed supplier.

I can understand sweatshirts having a logo on to identify school and to keep them looking smart but if the uniform is a white polo then I don't really see the need for one with a badge. Most of the time they are hidden under a sweatshirts.

One state secondary school here has gone down the route of forcing parents to buy all the uniform from the school. Trousers and skirts have to have their suppliers logo on them. Kids wearing incorrect uniform are excluded. They introduced this the school felt teenagers were wearing inappropriate styled trousers (low slung) and skirts (too short) and the overall over appearance was scruffy. Mixed reaction from parents. Some pleased they don't have to battle with hormonal teenagers about these items others feel they can decide if its appropriate wear. Cost isn't really an issue as most teenagers are in adult sizes which are pricey anyway. The school had to admit defeat with some pupils though as they just were not standard size and the company couldn't fit them. These have a special pass to buy plain black trousers which the school assess.

I think the cost of secondary school uniform has escalated since I was in school. Then you had a couple of blouses, grey skirts, grey jumpers and tie. PE kit was navy shorts and white t-shirt. Now they have to have a rugby kit, pe kit, football kit, cricket kit, hockey kit, swimming costume, football socks, rugby socks all with the school logo on. This has added over £100 to the bill.

Queenie

Don't know that I can agree with the statement re: secondary school uniform having escalated - but that may just be because of my own experience.

In my school - not private - we had a London supplier only. We had a winter uniform incl. hat, a summer uniform (special material!) incl. boater, a P.E. kit, a "games" summer kit, a winter outdoor kit; a swimming kit, and we were expected to provide our own hockey sticks and tennis rackets. Balls were provided by the school As the London supplier had an uncontested monopoly, what they charged, they got!
No exceptions were made:- therefore, my widowed mother with 5 children to support on a part time wage (no benefits as the Government of that time even taxed her widows pension and there was no sliding scale as now exists) had to provide the schools standard as equally as the professionals who were parents with maybe 2 children to the family and both parents working.

The difference was .... SELF RESPECT! My Mother (bear in mind in her childhood, the workhouse was still in existance and considered the ultimate shame!) worked darned hard to make certain that those of us who were able to have a "good" education got one. To her, it was a matter of pride and self respect that we were the same as everyone else in the school. I did not appreciate that enough when I was that age, of course. Now, as a parent, I admire her endeavours enormously and realise now, just how much she sacrificed on *our* behalf.

When my eldest 3 went to Secondary School, the uniform requirements were far less than my own experience. One all weather uniform, one all weather PE kit.

We live in a far more affluent environment than my parents did - yet, they managed it! Far more benefits are available today than ever before!!!! If a secondary school maintains a uniform policy, which isn't modern, then not only do I *know* it is achievable for even the poorest of families, but very attainable in today's society.

My 10yo had just learned that he's off to the local Grammer in Sept (excuse me a mo .... YIPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! :j ) I've yet to learn the uniform requirements - don't care really as I feel that his education is paramount! I'll sell up my home if need be so he and his younger brother can have the very best start in life!

If I take your own example Poppy, of say an increase of £100 per annum for the extra uniform then in reality we're really only talking of just under £2 per week. What is that in real terms in todays money? A bottle of wine? Certainly way less than a family take away!

If I have the choice of giving my family a take away per week versus sending them to a school which has a sense of tradition, pride, belonging and achievement .... I'll cook beans on toast for tea 4 nights a week if need be!

Ultimately, that is the nub of it - CHOICE! Those who feel the school is asking too much when others are not and feel strongly about it, will choose to send their kids to the more "affordable" school. However, when it comes to education ... that is the wrong reason to choose a school!

Poppy9

Queenie

I agree £100 is not much to most people and we are a more affluent society. I can afford the cost of uniform luckily but a friend of mine who is a single parent has made me realise how demoralising it is for them to continually live on the breadline. She is fantastic and after being abandoned by her husband when pregnant spent years studing fitting in with her child to improve her job prospects. She struggled to ensure he did not suffer even though his father refused to contribute to his upbringing. Due to an illness she cannot drive so relied on buses to get her son to after school activities. She said when he went to comp she just cried at the cost of the uniform. No family to help (she is an orphan), only part time wages and no benefits.

I just think that some schools inflate the cost unnecessary and the borderline income parents are always the ones who suffer.

jellyhead

hi poppy, was this recent? just wondering, i know my mum was left in crippling poverty by my dad (and the benefits sytem wasn't great back then) but nowadays a part time working mum would get tax credits and be better off than being on income support.

Queenie

Poppy - I can (truly!) empathise with your friend. I am no stranger to her circs either. (Hence age gap between my eldest 3 and younger 2). But, compared with my Mother's generation, are still much, MUCH, better off - relatively!

And that's the nub. It's all ... r.e.l.a.t.i.v.e (we're not talking blood here )

Borderline income parent/s suffering? I can't comment; I'm no longer a member of that group. I *do* know that there is a much greater provision made by the state for those who fall into that category than in my earlier days and most definately by contrast to my Mother's times. I can only reiterate: if it's a choice between my kids fitting in and having the better of education opportunities and us eating beans on toast 4 nights a week - bring on the beans!

As someone said in another post: "you only have one childhood" - I, like my Mother before me, feel that you give your kids the very best start in life you can possibly give! If the "better" of the schools has a strict uniform code, then that is the price you pay to make that preferred choice! If, on the contrary, their performance tables do not compare favourably to another school (without such stringent rules on uniform) then, naturally the first priority HAS to be the school which has the greater achievement rates.
Choices, choices

Poppy9

Jellyhead
her son is now 19 and she is working full time (for the last 6 years). She has bought her first house so still blooming skint, even though she has a decent job. Problem repaying student debts etc. I was shocked that there were no grants to help someone in her position retrain. She took a degree and then a professional qualification which took 7 years in total. I would have thought the govt would have been better off helping people to help themselves but as she said she was better off on benefits. Now she feels she has self respect, a nice home for her son and best of all she is happy - well she would like a hunky man!:D I perhaps was a bit cocooned in my life being part of a 2 parent family. I thought the system was helping people like this back into work. It wasn't. The WTC credit though is now helping people to work though even though she made me see another side to the poverty trap she will never convert me from the idea that there are career benefit claimants.:rolleyes:

Queenie

Our point of view on school choice might be different due to location. I understand from newspaper articles that its a scramble for places in England at secondary level with choices and preferred placements etc - doesn't sound easy from what I have read. In S Wales we haven't really gone down that route. You are guaranteed a place in your catchment area school. If you opt for another school out of catchment and are turned down you will be allocated a school - no choice, end of matter. Therefore if your catchment school is ok you don't really have a choice because you know if you fail in your preferred placement you will get a really crap school. Therefore parents don't really have a choice. For the most part I think this is good as kids are living local to their school and as such are able to walk to school and take part in out of school activities. If I lived in a lousy catchment area I would think different though. As we all know to live in a decent catchment area comes at a premium. i.e. house prices treble that of other areas. Anyway back to my point - I think - you don't really have a choice over uniform cost and schooling here. My sister forked out £300 for full compulsory uniform for her son when he joined comp. Thats a lot of money to most people. Its ok saying its less than £1 per day - but we never put that £1 a day away so it comes in a lump sum after the end of the school holidays. Then the cheeky blighter go and have a growth spurt and out grown the uniform in a few months.:eek: