Power of Attorney guide discussion

Willman_Rodders

alanq wrote: »

I spotted one thing that I believe is inaccurate.
"When you register a power of attorney you can request certified copies and I’d recommend that you get as many as your relative has accounts (plus a couple for spare). It’s cheaper than getting certified copies (which you have to do at a solicitor) after the event. "

"The OPG will provide office copies only in exceptional and limited circumstances." (In any case I'm not sure that an "office copy" is equivalent to a "certified copy".)
http://privateclient.practicallaw.com/3-508-0981

If copies are provided they cost £35 each (no exemptions) which is admittedly cheaper than the £5 per sheet a local solicitor has quoted me. But for institutions with local branches why pay £35 when one can go into a branch and let it make its own copy free of charge?

Alang, your belief is correct. You can no longer obtain free copies of the registered LPAs from the Office of the Public Guardian. This feature was withdrawn around October 2011.

The Office of the Public Guardian have issued revised instructions whereby the donor (i.e. the person making the LPA) can now make their own 'certified' copies of the original documents providing that the donor has mental capacity at the time of so doing.

alanq

Money Box Live BBC Radio 4 Wednesday 2nd May 15:00

"Paul Lewis and guests answer your questions about appointing someone else to manage your affairs, when you are no longer able to make decisions yourself."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/9714901.stm

John_Pierpoint

Some interesting little facts emerged:
It is a whole lot cheaper to make a Scottish equivalent.
However if you screw up the forms, you can make a second attempt tor half price.
Beware trying to specify who acts and when - you have just got to trust your attorneys jointly & severally from day one or risk the power failing when it comes to be used and ending up with the count of protection.
Your attorneys cannot meddle with your will, regardless of how stupid the will becomes with the passage of time.

PasturesNew

When I got PoA and suddenly had to start acting on behalf of... my parent had already given me their debit card weeks before anyway .... so I'd been using their card. 2-3 months later when I registered the PoA at the bank, they told me that they'd give me my own card/cheque book and that's how I should have been doing it.

So, get the PoA registered at their banks - and if you don't need access to the money immediately then the person you have the PoA on can hold onto your cheque book/card as it's sent to them anyway to hand over to you. I could have cried when it arrived because I was in their house, opening their mail and so effectively bypassing the security the bank thought was in place anyway.

alanq

PasturesNew wrote: »

the person you have the PoA on can hold onto your cheque book/card as it's sent to them anyway to hand over to you.

That was not my experience. Paperwork was sent to my mother's regarding the POA having been set up but my card for her account was sent directly to MY home address.

It was agreed I did not need a separate chequebook as my signature would become acceptable on cheques from my mother's chequebook. If I had requested a new chequebook I expect that it too would have been sent directly to me.

Therefore it seems holding on to an attorney's card and chequebook may not provide any guarantee for the donor against an attorney misusing their powers as the attorney may be able to request replacements sent directly to themselves.

John_Pierpoint

I got my mother to make me "a registered signatory" on her account/cheque book. That was a whole lot easier and bureaucracy free, than the hassle caused by getting a power of attorney accepted.

dzug1

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I got my mother to make me "a registered signatory" on her account/cheque book. That was a whole lot easier and bureaucracy free, than the hassle caused by getting a power of attorney accepted.

Some banks will not accept that arrangement if there is a whiff of a power of attorney in the air

alanq

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I got my mother to make me "a registered signatory" on her account/cheque book. That was a whole lot easier and bureaucracy free, than the hassle caused by getting a power of attorney accepted.

Unless she loses capacity and the arrangement becomes void. Then you would be unable to get an LPA and have to seek a deputyship which is a lot more difficult, bureaucratic and expensive than getting an LPA.

John_Pierpoint

I already had power of attorney/enduring power of attorney BUT the hassle it caused, persuading individual financial institutions it was valid, was to be avoided if possible.

The problem in this case was basically that the bank had picked up on a change in the signature. (It had changed as a result of a TIA = "mini stroke"). So "authorised signatory" was the simple solution to a simple problem, for someone who now had agreed that she could not safely drive a car.

This brings me to the issue of:

What is the magic switch that says someone has "lost capacity"?
and the related question
Who is going to bother to officially inform the court that capacity has been lost?.

[With another relative I had the joy of paying for an argument between a solicitor and a doctor, not about the capacity of the patient, but basically an
argument that was a cross between "anus protectus" and whose insurance policy covered the risk of getting it wrong and was the fee worth it. In fairness it was very soon after the concept of lasting power of attorney had become law.]

Just for the record, on my grand mother's estate - that has rumbled on for "donkey's years", because more than four people cannot "legally" own the same piece of land, I am currently going through an annual routine that goes like this:

- This is an executors' account so it requires two signatures!
- But I am the sole executor [the other one died 5 years ago] please check your correspondence file.
[some days later]
- Ah yes, we can release the 5 cheques. [that add up to all of £750]

My wife is currently having similar problems with her mother's power of attorney/enduring power of attorney being "too old" for some institutions.

Fortunately, with old people, though not those younger people with limited capacity, the grim reaper usually resolves the situation, within a few years.

bagLady5

Biggles wrote: »

It all comes down to the member of staff you deal with, and whether you escalate it if the initial contact doesn't understand PoAs. You said it yourself in your previous post, "Be prepared for battles - many frontline staff will have no idea what you are talking about!"

I found, at my branch of Lloyds, no problem at all. Fully knowledgeable about PoA, arranged online access for me etc.

bagLady5
We are dealing with Barclays re POA for an elderly relative and they want us to open an account with them, to know our financial affairs, income etc. We were amazed that they would not do anything until we complete all of this. We had the POA & our Passports with us, but that was not enough. They said that their Solicitor would have to see the POA and check it !

We asked for forms to take away to complete and return - as we live a distance away from our relative, but were told that it was all done on the computer and it would take 1.5 hours ! All we wanted was to have the cheque book changed to show that we are acting for our relative. Now, we have to spend money on petrol, hotel etc, all because of Barclays ! I think I will ask them to cover our costs.

A friend told us that the FSA does not mention anything in their literature re financial status of the POA, or having to open an account with Barclays, in order look after our relatives affairs of this relative.
Anyone else come across this with Barclays ? Any helpful advice would be most welcome.