Power of Attorney guide discussion

MSE_Jenny

Hi, we've written a new Power of Attorney guide to help people plan ahead, and we'd love your feedback.

If you've set up power of attorney, what are your practical tips? If you're already an attorney for someone else, what practical advice do you have for others? Do you have any other questions you'd like answers to?

Thanks for your help!

MSE Jenny

wirehair

I have POA for mother in law , she is in a care home. I dont have much to add other than the fact that I had the horrors when I saw all the forms so used a solicitor , it turned out to be quite easy but too late , cost MIL £700:eek:
I know you have to keep books and get receipts for everythig you spend , but I find this quite hard , as I just pick up thinks for her when shopping etc . who actually gets to see these books and how often . As no one has ever mentioned wanting to see them .

Veryannoyed_3

wirehair wrote: »

I have POA for mother in law , she is in a care home. I dont have much to add other than the fact that I had the horrors when I saw all the forms so used a solicitor , it turned out to be quite easy but too late , cost MIL £700:eek:
I know you have to keep books and get receipts for everythig you spend , but I find this quite hard , as I just pick up thinks for her when shopping etc . who actually gets to see these books and how often . As no one has ever mentioned wanting to see them .

I presume you would only be asked to produce the accounts if there was a dispute ie if one person in the family perhaps thought someone else was spending money they shouldn't be, or perhaps if you said that her money had run out and you wanted the state to pay her fees, then social services would want to see bank statements to prove what you said.

We don't keep accounts, just bank statements and copies of receipts and it's to protect us the attorneys as much as anything, so that we can prove we spent X amount of money on her home etc.

[Deleted User]

Martin's guide starts of with 'One in three of us will die with dementia.'

Dementia is an organic disease of the brain and there are various types of dementia. Anyone who has LPA or EPofA has a legal responsibility to ensure that the money they are entrusted with is spent LAWFULLY.

This therefore would also includes fighting on behalf of that person who has dementia, or any other illness, injury or disability necessitating 24/7health care, for NHS continuing care funding.

Simply paying for this type of care because ther NHS have passed the person to social services is NOT acting in the persons best interests - as that type of care is the lawful responsbility of the NHS

An illness, injury or disability requiring 24/7 care is not social care.

Only social care is means tested and if the person has assets over certain thresholds, then they are expected to pay/contribute.

Anyone who takes on the responsilibities of POA needs to be fully sure that any money they pay for care fees ARE for social care and not becuase of health care reasons.

You should also be aware that full time care can start off as social care, and become a health care issue - and if you have the responsbility for that perons's money you also have the responsbility to demand an NHS assessessment on whether that person qualifies for funding.

I have tried to ask Martin to highlight this important subject of NHS continuing health care and have pm'd him but so far no response.

It is an excellent idea to get one's affairs sorted BEFORE any decline in health - BUT - attorneys need to be aware that the problem of 24/7 care and care fees is very complex - especially as the NHS routinely refuse to pay, without a fight, even at times when someone is critically ill or palliative.

The criteria is strict for Attorneys on how a person's money is managed - bear in mind that attorneys could be held to account if money is spent on health care fees when it should not have been.

Biggles

Veryannoyed wrote: »

I presume you would only be asked to produce the accounts if there was a dispute ie if one person in the family perhaps thought someone else was spending money they shouldn't be, or perhaps if you said that her money had run out and you wanted the state to pay her fees, then social services would want to see bank statements to prove what you said.

Not necessarily, the Office of the Public Guardian can, I think, ask at any time. But, in practice, I imagine it would only be in the event of a dispute.

We don't keep accounts, just bank statements and copies of receipts and it's to protect us the attorneys as much as anything, so that we can prove we spent X amount of money on her home etc.

The records needed to be kept don't need to be too onerous, what you are doing sounds fine to me.

Biggles

Deleted_User wrote: »

bear in mind that attorneys could be held to account if money is spent on health care fees when it should not have been.

It would be better to keep this thread 'on topic' rather than worry attorneys unnecessarily about something that's outside the scope of their remit.

There are other threads running on the subject of NHS Continuing Care and they are presently generating more heat than light. We surely don't want that to happen to another thread.

dzug1

wirehair wrote: »

who actually gets to see these books and how often . As no one has ever mentioned wanting to see them .

In most cases I would imagine no one ever looks at them.

And I suspect that the Court of Protection are the only people with a RIGHT to see them. Other relatives, if you so chose, you could require to get a court order before showing them (not necessarily a good idea though - could be expensive in fees)

I keep a simple spreadsheet of incomings and outgoings and a record of decisions (eg 'allowed X bond to roll over' and half a sentence on the reason and throw all the receipts in a folder.

JLL

My 2 sisters and brother and I have POA for our aunt. My uncle died 5 years ago and they have no children. We are the closest thing to her children. We sent off for the paperwork for the POA £240 for the health and money POA. The solictor wanted over £900 just to sign his name at the bottom of it. It comes with a page by page step guide on how to fill it it. It does take some time but is so easy to do. I would highly recommend doing it your self and not use a solictor.

2 weeks ago we went to pick up my aunt to go for a meal for my moms birthday. When i rang the door bell no answer. I looked through the living room window and she was on the floor. I phoned for and ambulance and they told me it would be over an hours wait and to take her to hospital ourselves. She's 84 years old. Turns out she'd had a stroke (don't get me started about the advert on the tele about quick response). She hadn't been taking her tablets for over a month. Now we have had to put the POA in to practice. The hospital have told us that it makes their jobs alot easier having a POA but are amazed how many people don't have but should.

Since she's been in hospital we've found out that she hadn't been paying here bills to the point of have cut off letters. So it's a god send that she took it out and it looks like she will have to go in to a home as she can longer care for herself. She also has the onset of Alzheimers.

The other members of the family (ie cousin) have already started butting their nose in. Most of them haven't seen her since my uncles funeral. She chose us to look afer her like we always have we always will.

Gers

Interesting article - thanks.

I already hold my mothers' POA (Scotland) which is registered - hold both financial and welfare/medical ones - but neither are yet 'active'.

My only worry is what evidence to places like banks, utility companies, credit card companies etc require for me to be able to deal with them? I have read some horror stories about banks not accepting them.

Additionally I sometimes make phone calls on her behalf and the companies want confirmation that I am acting for her. The problem is that she is fairly deaf and finds telephone calls very difficult. Can I quote the POA at them? Surely that can't be enough? BT are an especially problematic company for this!

Thanks

PennyMoney

As someone who has lurked on various parts of this forum for a while, I found the article really well timed as I am in the process of applying to be a Deputy for my aunt. She had previously named someone else to have Power of Attorney but now the time has arrived they have decided that they don't want to do it and are in the process of Disclaiming.

I'm not intending to use a solicitor but would be interested to hear of anyone else who has applied to be a Deputy without using a solicitor; am I being unrealistic?

A couple of comments - I've found it a disadvantage that my aunt paid all her bills by cheque as it means that I'm having to personally pay them pending my appointment, and there's the danger of an outstanding bill being missed. I would recommend that anyone drawing up a power of attorney should be gently reminded of the advantages of paying bills by direct debit!

Also, my aunt and I live some distance from each other (although both in England). Although not insurmountable this has caused a few problems. I do now shudder when I hear of how many people have named as having POA a son or daughter who lives abroad; they may seem the obvious choice but not necessarily the most practical.

ropewalk

Hi
I have POA for my younger sister (severely physically disabled with MS, including her speech, but able to understand her own affairs ) and my younger brother (mentally handicapped from birth, able to live independently, with help, but unable to handle bills, etc )
Two very different scenarios, with lots of complications.
A few pointers that I would pass on:
*Get lots of certified copies of your POA - companies and government depts frequently forget to return them! Also, if something untoward happens you may need several to send off in different directions at once.
*Name more than one attorney - I will soon have to work out how to add the next generation onto the POAs as I am worried that if something happened to me they would both be left high and dry.
*Never assume that banks or others will not contact the person concerned. This can be distressing and potentially disastrous. Even when they are told not to they often will. Be aware. (My brother just throws away any letters he doesn't understand!)
*Telephone and internet banking are lifesavers.
*Keep a strict record of who has seen the POA and when they saw it - it helps when they deny ever having seen it.
*Always run separate bank accounts to prevent confusion and as an aid to record keeping
*Pay as much as you can by direct debit/standing order
*Check bank accounts REGULARLY for errors, odd payments etc
*Be prepared for battles - many frontline staff will have no idea what you are talking about!
Hope this helps
Sue