HSBC Debit Fraud

samuelkelsey

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if I could get some help / advice on a situation im currently in. On saturday it appears that my card was cloned and used to spend about £600 out of my current account. Once spotted (about 10pm on saturday night) I informed the bank who have cancelled my cards etc and im currently waiting for the transactions to be fully processed and appear on my statement so I can dispute them. Before I call up and do this I was wondering if some light could be shed on a couple of questions I have?

Firstly; How in depth will HSBC's investigation into the fraud be? (having spoken to the bank on the phone it appears that unusually the card has been used for debit purchases quite locally to where I live as in 5-10miles away!!) is it worth me approaching these business for cctv footage to help in my case?

Secondly; They have already offered to re-coup me the funds prior to the investigation but i'm somewhat worried about the locality of the fraud to my residence if they find in favour of themselves and im liable what happens in regard to the money they've already given me? how quickly must it be returned?

Thridly; I belive my card was probaly cloned at a local petrol station, either via pay at pump or the ATM (after looking online it appears im not the only one whos had issues with this petrol station) i've informed the Bank and the petrol station themselves that theres a possibility that "skimming" is taking place and their not really too fussed.

Fourthly (and finally); If the bank accepts that these transactions are fraudulent and im not responsible in anyway whos pays the merchant or the bank? becuase im really hoping its the bank as I rarely use my debit card for high value purchases as a credit card offers far more protection, the spending pattern is nothing like my usual "habits" and their so called state of the art fraud protection system is clearly a bit of a joke!!

As you can imagine christmas is just round the corner and getting this sorted is a priority, thank you for reading

tagq2

samuelkelsey wrote: »

Firstly; How in depth will HSBC's investigation into the fraud be? (having spoken to the bank on the phone it appears that unusually the card has been used for debit purchases quite locally to where I live as in 5-10miles away!!)

It might make it harder to prove it's not you but, all things considered, the most likely place to use a cloned card would be close to you - anywhere else has a vaguely equally small chance.

is it worth me approaching these business for cctv footage to help in my case?

Inform the police (regardless of what the bank tell you) and ask for their advice. It might be fruitful in the shops where you think the debits took place. But if anywhere staff may be involved, asking the wrong people might just prompt them to make it go missing.

if they find in favour of themselves and im liable what happens in regard to the money they've already given me? how quickly must it be returned?

Do you have any reason to believe your PIN has been compromised? Do you cover your typing hand while entering it? They should refund immediately and will probably re-debit as quickly if finding against you, perhaps turning into some sort of repayment plan. But their word isn't final.

Thridly; I belive my card was probaly cloned at a local petrol station, either via pay at pump or the ATM

Can you recall anything suspicious about the ATM? Was your card taken from you during payment? In you informed the station and they're involved then they may have detached any illicit device. A quick glance if you or a friend pass by it routinely might give you a clue.

Fourthly (and finally); If the bank accepts that these transactions are fraudulent and im not responsible in anyway whos pays the merchant or the bank?

It depends on the arrangement with the merchant's bank. If PIN was used, the bank may suck it up (hence the main reason they're reluctant to refund). If cardholder-not-present and no Verified/SecureCode password, e.g. calling up a local service, the merchant is almost certainly going to be liable.

the spending pattern is nothing like my usual "habits" and their so called state of the art fraud protection system is clearly a bit of a joke!!

This should act in your favour but any such automated system is far from bulletproof. Something which is obvious to a human mind may require a lot of sophistication from a computer program.

Recommend use credit card in future if available.

al25

I thought chip and pin is pretty secure?

tom9980

al25 wrote: »

I thought chip and pin is pretty secure?

Far from it recent news suggests its been hacked by university boffins who basically use a device to trick the atm that the correct pin has been entered when its actually wrong. It was on the BBC news one morning in the past week or so, the flaw has been known for a few years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/susanwatts/2010/02/new_flaws_in_chip_and_pin_syst.html

Lokolo

al25 wrote: »

I thought chip and pin is pretty secure?

Have a camera pointing at the pin machine. Til operator creates a new card using the card number etc. from the receipt. Uses the card elsewhere using the PIN number thats been caught from the camera.

(which is why you should cover it!)

McKneff

It amazes me in Supermarkets and ATMs how many people dont cover their hands when puttin in their pin number

Lokolo

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2011/12/06/are-you-embarrassed-to-hide-your-pin-code-when-paying-in-shops/

Weird that this blog was posted this morning!

Bloomberg

samuelkelsey wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if I could get some help / advice on a situation im currently in. On saturday it appears that my card was cloned and used to spend about £600 out of my current account. Once spotted (about 10pm on saturday night) I informed the bank who have cancelled my cards etc and im currently waiting for the transactions to be fully processed and appear on my statement so I can dispute them. Before I call up and do this I was wondering if some light could be shed on a couple of questions I have?

Firstly; How in depth will HSBC's investigation into the fraud be? (having spoken to the bank on the phone it appears that unusually the card has been used for debit purchases quite locally to where I live as in 5-10miles away!!) is it worth me approaching these business for cctv footage to help in my case?

Secondly; They have already offered to re-coup me the funds prior to the investigation but i'm somewhat worried about the locality of the fraud to my residence if they find in favour of themselves and im liable what happens in regard to the money they've already given me? how quickly must it be returned?

Thridly; I belive my card was probaly cloned at a local petrol station, either via pay at pump or the ATM (after looking online it appears im not the only one whos had issues with this petrol station) i've informed the Bank and the petrol station themselves that theres a possibility that "skimming" is taking place and their not really too fussed.

Fourthly (and finally); If the bank accepts that these transactions are fraudulent and im not responsible in anyway whos pays the merchant or the bank? becuase im really hoping its the bank as I rarely use my debit card for high value purchases as a credit card offers far more protection, the spending pattern is nothing like my usual "habits" and their so called state of the art fraud protection system is clearly a bit of a joke!!

As you can imagine christmas is just round the corner and getting this sorted is a priority, thank you for reading

I was chatting with a member of staff in my local HSBC about the secure key. We then got onto the subject of card cloning. He told me that if a customer contacts them and claims that there are rogue transactions on their account the money is refunded by HSBC within two hours and then the bank investigate. I would take the money that they are offering you, the onus is on them to prove that you have acted fraudulently.


As for approaching the establishments were your card was misused, why do you want to be an unpaid policemen / detective? From now on you should only use a credit card for all purchases.

lanza

And this is another reason why its better to have a debit card thats running on a minimum to get by with transfers taken from your main account. The card is in the public domain so much it can get screwed over. So obviously the less in it the better.

Gromitt

lanza: I use Halifax for this reason - 1K in, then everything apart from £100 moved to a Savings account meaning the maximum balance is roughly £100 (apart from a few hours a month) and the bank are even kind enough to give me £5 for using them.

lanza

Gromitt wrote: »

lanza: I use Halifax for this reason - 1K in, then everything apart from £100 moved to a Savings account meaning the maximum balance is roughly £100 (apart from a few hours a month) and the bank are even kind enough to give me £5 for using them.

Is that not dangerous still ? If somebody gets access to your account, they can see when that £1000 comes in (and goes out) and try and nab it right away.

I pay into a savings account and then transfer £100 or more at a time to debit account. That way my savings account is never on any radar.