credit card exchange rate in Spain

grumbler

peterbaker wrote:

It involves VISA, credit card issuing banks and merchant network providing banks, and as you will see below, it involves major retailers conspiring with their financial network services providers.

Wrong. Credit card issuing bank is not involved. NW is a victim of DCC. They made a promise to customers at the time when DCC did not exist and now it is difficult (impossible?) for them to keep the promise.

Bear in mind I entered into a contract to buy groceries, not currency.

Yes, and you can pay in local currency or with euro-based card if you want. But you want to pay with £-based card.

It says VISA provided a rate of 1.426556 which is not a good rate on the day (first part of conspiracy)

Why this did not bother you before DCC appeared?

Now would someone please start taking this seriously. Some of you Credit Card regulars have been puss-y-footing around for months on this when it should have been an important Campaign Issue on the site.

I am happy to campaign agains VISA, but I cannot. We can deal only with NW which, as I told, is a small player against VISA. I think the only result of this campaign can be that NW withdraw their offer and we lose our last source of getting foreign currency abroad with fair exchange rate.

pin

Peterbaker. If you think there are illegal activities going on, have you contacted the relevant authorities to they can investigate the matter and possibilty try and prosecute the parties, as you think there may be criminal activities going on?

You try the police, Europol, Interpol, the Competition Commission, the Office of Fair Trading, or the DG Competition in Brussels.

grumbler

peterbaker wrote:

Because the exchange rate applied in the "old and acceptable" manner by VISA is different to the notional exchange rate "provided by VISA" as part of this Dynamic Currency Conspiracy. It is at least a cent lower than the lowest rate applied in other "old and acceptable" style transactions on the same statement. VISA seem to have two rates now. One for the "old and acceptable" way and a second detrimental one which ensures their cut in the Dynamic Currency Conspiray method.

I don't have figures and cannot be sure, but I know for sure that VISA rate fluctuates during a day. This one cent can be result of these fluctuations.

Why can't "you" campaign against VISA? What is stopping "you"?

Maybe I used wrong words. I cannot complain directly to VISA. If you want to campaign, I can join you - sign something for example.

That's what I mean about puss-y-footing. Don't you think Nationwide has the balls to start promoting that it will ignore Dynamic Currency Conspiracy transactions and make proper currency exchanges on its bills? It still has the balls to be promoting "no 2.75% commission on foreign currency transactions" aggressively, and it still has the balls to allow me to quote them in saying I have been duped.

They started promoting this a long time ago - at least 5 years. And I am sure that they still don't have a lot of complaints, because most of people don't know even APRs of their cards. Why will they bother about a few % difference in exchange rate? If everybody follow you in you 'campaign' against NW (not VISA) they will stop promoting because there will be nothing to promote. They will just follow other banks in foreigh transactions policy. That is why I think it is better to take care with our transactions abroad (and use cash if possible) and to get of NW's back.

brodev

Sorry for the delay in updating this but i have only just received a reply. the following is a copy of the email I received from Saga.
Dear Mr *****

I have received confirmation now from Visa. They advise me that they have raised the issue with the merchants bank in Spain and placed the merchant on their audit list. This means that should the merchant will now have to offer customers the proper choice of payment. If they do not and are reported again, a heavy fine will be raised against the merchants bank.

Given the recent heightened cardholder awareness and press coverage of this issue, we believe that this type of problem will be eradicated in the very near future.

Yours sincerely.


I have raised the question of compensation and I await their reply.

Reaper

That is very good news - action at last.

I must have missed all the "press coverage of this issue" (apart from here) but I'm glad it is working.

NFH

I have a euro-denominated Visa card issued in the UK. I use it for transactions in Euroland, which ultimately come out of my euro bank account. Given that euro transactions on my euro Visa card have no exchange rate, Dynamic Currency Conversion scams in Euroland are immediately obvious to me. More recently, I've had a UK-issued euro-denominated Amex card, where the scam does not seem to occur, as Amex tend to be stricter about misbehaviour by merchants.

From what I have read elsewhere and from my own experience, I believe the DCC scam originated in Ireland. DCC first happened to me when I was in Dublin for new year in 2001/2002, the same time as the introduction of euro cash across Euroland. I'd had my euro-denominated Visa card since the euro was introduced in 1999, but because of the introduction of euro cash, I was paying close attention to every transaction, both cash and credit card. When I checked out of the Hilton in Dublin, they already had my Visa card details, which they had swiped when I checked in. The hotel invoice I received upon checkout showed a EUR amount only, no GBP or IEP amount. When I got my Visa card statement, the euro amount on the euro-denominated statement was different from the euro amount on the hotel invoice. This was because the Hilton had converted from EUR to GBP (adding 3%), and my euro Visa card issuer had converted from GBP to EUR (adding 2%). I disputed the transaction with my card issuer and I specifically told them I wanted the whole transaction (not just the difference) disputed so that the Hilton had to resubmit it correctly. The whole transaction was refunded but the Hilton never resubmitted it. I subsequently exchanged considerable correspondence with the Hilton and discovered that they used Fexco for their credit card processing, but the Hilton were unaware that Fexco was ripping off the Hilton's guests. I have today found this: http://www.fexco.com/dcc.php and http://www.fexcodcc.com (obviously big business for Fexco given they have a domain name just for DCC)

Since then, I have experienced DCC elsewhere, particularly in Spain. It appears that the Spanish bank La Caixa is a frequent culprit. Anywhere in Euroland with large numbers of non-Euroland tourists is a target for DCC.

It is interesting that when the merchant's EFTPOS machine decides whether to transact in EUR or GBP, it does not look at the transaction currency of the card, but at the country of issue of the card. This means that you can only be sure to avoid this scam by having a euro-denominated card issued in Euroland.

My euro Visa card issuer has just told me "Visa have confirmed that the practice is against its rules and only recently announced fines for merchants who are guilty of the practice. When Visa investigated last year, the problem was more widespread than they realised and they embarked on an education programme for merchants. That has reduced the problem although it has not yet been eliminated, hence the recent announcement about fines."

However, I'm not sure the merchants are entirely to blame. In the case of Fexco, their web site states clearly that the merchant gains a revenue stream from DCC, but I think in Spain things might be different. Given that the Spanish EFTPOS machines do not give the merchant a choice of transaction currency, one wonders whether it is the Spanish banks, not the merchants, who should be fined. The Spanish banks clearly facilitate DCC, and in many cases enforce it compulsorily by giving no choice of currency at the point of sale. Despite the news of fines from Visa, I'm not sure that the DCC scam is going to decline quickly. A quick search of Google http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22dynamic+currency+conversion%22&num=100&hl=en shows that DCC is widely promoted by many credit card merchant services companies as a way for merchants to skim extra money off customers.

Next time I spot DCC at the point of sale (particularly restaurants), I shall write "DECLINED" in the signature box and put a big cross through the rest of the voucher. I shall then give the restaurant a euro-denominated cheque drawn on a UK bank, which is expensive for the merchant to process.

KTF

NFH wrote:

I have a euro-denominated Visa card issued in the UK.

Out of interest, what card is this?

NFH

KTF wrote:

Out of interest, what card is this?

It's a small bank based in the Channel Islands and Isle of Man (not strictly "UK", but nevertheless part of the UK banking system and the GBP zone). Given that I've directly quoted an e-mail of one of their very helpful employees without his permission, I'm reluctant to divulge the name of the bank. If anyone wants a euro bank account with a Visa card, e-mail me privately (address on my web site), but I'm not posting the name in public.

MarkyMarkD

NFH wrote:

Next time I spot DCC at the point of sale (particularly restaurants), I shall write "DECLINED" in the signature box and put a big cross through the rest of the voucher. I shall then give the restaurant a euro-denominated cheque drawn on a UK bank, which is expensive for the merchant to process.

That's all very well in theory, but there's no obligation on any merchant to accept payment by cheque (particularly a non-country specific cheque). They would probably just refuse you and demand cash or card - leaving you stymied.

NFH

MarkyMarkD wrote:

That's all very well in theory, but there's no obligation on any merchant to accept payment by cheque (particularly a non-country specific cheque). They would probably just refuse you and demand cash or card - leaving you stymied.

If the merchant displays a Visa symbol in its window but refuses to charge my Visa card in the legal tender currency of the country I am in, then the merchant would not be in a position to argue about alternative forms of payment. I may not have enough cash with me anyway.