Black Ice? Please Don't Panic!!!!!!

NBLondon

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

ABS is a real problem for drivers with little nous or experience in such conditions.
It's been ingrained into motorists since abs 1st appeared that you slam on the brakes and the computer does the rest:eek: What utter tosh.

Indeed!

Last year I had the good fortune to do the Jaguar Experience Day and was invited to test the emergency stop on an XF from 70mph. First time the instructor complimented me for cadence braking and then suggested I just slam on and see how the ABS got on...

Later that day I tried their "ice road" surface (it's like a big sheet of lino wetted and greased) and that was an eye-opener! I was told to drive onto it at about 30 and then twitch the steering wheel and accelerate to induce a skid. I knew it was coming, steered into it with feet off the pedals and still ended up pointing back the way I'd come. Then did it again with the super traction control switched on and the back end only went about 10 degrees round and then responded.

A great thing to learn on and a great bit of technology - if you've got £40k worth of Jag as well.

Strider590

NBLondon wrote: »

Then did it again with the [STRIKE]super traction control[/STRIKE] Dynamic stability control switched on and the back end only went about 10 degrees round and then responded.

A great thing to learn on and a great bit of technology - if you've got £40k worth of Jag as well.

Not being picky, it's just that traction control is simply the opposite of ABS.

ABS stops the wheels locking under braking.
TC stops the wheels spinning under acceleration.

Most cars benefit from TC off in the snow/ice.

DTDfanBoy

The most important factor is to know your cars abilities, if you have a modern car with stability control and you want to stop use the brakes, steer in the direction you want to go, and the car will do the rest

If you still manage to hit the car in front you are traveling to closely, it's a simple as that.

Advising not to brake in a modern car is a bit of a moot point, if the car detects you are entering a slide it will brake for you regardless of whether you want to or not. :T

Trebor16

Strider590 wrote: »

Exactly, so that proves my point.... There's no realistic following distance on ice.

235ft x 10 = 0.4451miles

Half a mile following distance is simply never going to happen. Thus driver up front needs educating in the correct actions to take when driving on Ice.

235 feet is a 4 second gap. The recommended minimum gap for ice and snow is a 10 second gap so try multiplying 235 by 2.5, not 10. That will give you 587 feet or 180 metres.

But if you choose to drive at 40mph on snow and ice you are mad.

DTDfanBoy

Strider590 wrote: »

Not being picky, it's just that traction control is simply the opposite of ABS.

ABS stops the wheels locking under braking.
TC stops the wheels spinning under acceleration.

Most cars benefit from TC off in the snow/ice.

Not being picky but Jaguars Dynamic Stability Control is far more than just ABS and Traction Control.

I used to be lucky enough to borrow an XFR from time to time, you'd have to be clinically insane to loose it in one

Strider590

DTDfanBoy wrote: »

The most important factor is to know your cars abilities, if you have a modern car with stability control and you want to stop use the brakes, steer in the direction you want to go, and the car will do the rest

If you still manage to hit the car in front you are traveling to closely, it's a simple as that.

Advising not to brake in a modern car is a bit of a moot point, if the car detects you are entering a slide it will brake for you regardless of whether you want to or not. :T

Your talking about cars with ESP/DSC, but to say they brake for you is going to the very basic Laymans explanation. What it really does is applies the brakes on each wheel individually in order to keep the car in a straight line, it doesn't slam on all 4 brakes at once, which is what im saying you should never do.

Lum

Trebor16 wrote: »

235 feet is a 4 second gap. The recommended minimum gap for ice and snow is a 10 second gap so try multiplying 235 by 2.5, not 10. That will give you 587 feet or 180 metres.

and 10 seconds after you leave this gap, it will still get filled by a bunch of cars putting you back at a one second following distance.

Trebor16

Lum wrote: »

and 10 seconds after you leave this gap, it will still get filled by a bunch of cars putting you back at a one second following distance.

The only way they would do this on a single carriageway road is to overtake you.

Strider590

Trebor16 wrote: »

235 feet is a 4 second gap. The recommended minimum gap for ice and snow is a 10 second gap so try multiplying 235 by 2.5, not 10. That will give you 587 feet or 180 metres.

But if you choose to drive at 40mph on snow and ice you are mad.

I was referring to section 230 of the highway code.

When driving in icy or snowy weather

• drive with care, even if the roads have been treated
• keep well back from the road user in front as stopping distances can be ten times greater than on dry roads

So if the stopping distance is ten times greater, then the following distance should follow.

DTDfanBoy

Strider590 wrote: »

Your talking about cars with ESP/DSC, but to say they brake for you is going to the very basic Laymans explanation. What it really does is applies the brakes on each wheel individually in order to keep the car in a straight line, it doesn't slam on all 4 brakes at once, which is what im saying you should never do.

Thanks for the tip, but believe me when I say I'm aware of the various systems out there

Many new systems also throw individual torque control into the mix, which allows you to do some pretty incredible things, especially in 4WD's

The point I was trying to get across was if you have a modern car, the computer in it is much more capable than even the most highly skilled drivers of taking the correct steps to get you out of a dangerous situation (in the vast majority of circumstances)

The technology that has become available in the last decade is simply staggering to say the least