800,000% overdrafts

lanza

samjef11 wrote: »

I do not agree with

Nice try, to smooze and compliment the members here. another typical trick. I say it like it is and would not dare try patronize people like that. If they are good hearted or not i am pretty sure they know it and do not need anybody to tell them what they are, or are not.

or

All you do is evade the points and use a load of dirty tricks to try and close down what is probably one of the most important topics on this forum

But i will say this every people have different opinions to yours do you accept that their judgemental opinions may be different?

you misquoted me so what i said is in blue.

In regards to your last point, the answer is yes i do accept that completely.

samjef11_2

lanza wrote: »

In regards to your last point, the answer is yes i do accept that completely.

Fine then why are we having this long discussion what is there to achieve just by talking the problem is to complex and the banks know it.

And until there is a way to fixing the system we should not go on about it.

samjef11_2

lanza wrote: »

so i can rip you apart in public and let people see the methods underlying a whole host of dirty tricks.

If you where to meet me in person i may not be the person that i am on here and i am not one of the wall streets people you don't know what type of the person i am offline i do voluntary work for nothing get very little income but i got better at managing my money.

lanza

i will go so far to say that the world would fall apart very quickly if it were to be dominated by my view. Life, society whatever needs a particular balance of different types of people to work. People that hate each other are still required for different functions of society.

We need people with banker mindsets, even if they do have attributes of greed and power lust driven by insecurity.... otherwise we dont have an economic system and stability.

What happens in life (if you study complex systems, my field) .. is that it self regulates itself by excess and pruning .... so for example we need economic systems to go up a gear say in the 70's to deal with multinational organization. Fair enough, the world becomes more efficient and coherent as a result. So there was a large influx of ideas, systems, regulation and technology to build our current financial system. The system then went into excess growth and the sociopathic types who are good at putting these systems into place started getting rid of pesky regulations that were interfering with their short term beat the finance institution across the road games.

The system collapsed...by excess of growth. So now it needs rebuilt again..

However the sociopathic types liked it the way it was. they just want to patch it up, to get back on with their zero sum high stimulation games. They dont care if the patchup is short term. They just went to get back with their exciting lives. Hence bailouts dont work, government intervention does not work. All can be circumvented. The only thing that can work is revolution by the population at large. The entire system needs taken apart and rebuilt with something like a moral fiber system (similarity to the american constitution) based on decisions by the public. We want to inject moral fiber into it, not to destroy the system. Its infrastructure is of too high value. The world would fall into complete chaos if the entire system was destroyed beyond repair.

This is the biggest issue in the world today (global warming aside).

lanza

samjef11 wrote: »

If you where to meet me in person i may not be the person that i am on here and i am not one of the wall streets people you don't know what type of the person i am offline i do voluntary work for nothing get very little income but i got better at managing my money.

I am always open minded that i have taken what you proposed the wrong way. Its often the people that are on the edge who are the most amenable to be brainwashed (because they are stressed) by some of the bull thats flying around all over the internet just now. Why is there so much of this going around. There is a desperate bid to stop the masses turning against a system thats corrupt to the core.

I dont actually want anarchy or destruction of the current infrastructure. I think the solution is to be target specific. If we look at the history of this type of problem, taking out key offenders and publicly stripping them of status has often been the most efficient way to fix these kinds of problems.

However you need to size the target properly. i.e. Just how many of these people are there that require to be taken out to fix the system... Is it 200, 2000, 20,000 ?

If there is not a calculation like this then you can never know if the strategy is going to work.

samjef11_2

lanza wrote: »

I am always open minded that i have taken what you proposed the wrong way. Its often the people that are on the edge who are the most amenable to be brainwashed (because they are stressed) by some of the bull thats flying around all over the internet just now. Why is there so much of this going around. There is a desperate bid to stop the masses turning against a system thats corrupt to the core.

I dont actually want anarchy or destruction of the current infrastructure. I think the solution is to be target specific. Take out key offenders and publicly humiliate them has often been the most efficient way to fix these kinds of problems in society if we look at the history of this type of problem.

We will have to keep adapting to the system no matter what.

I see where you are coming from the people if these big banks and other company's are too full of greed right?

samjef11_2

lanza wrote: »

However you need to size the target properly. i.e. Just how many of these people are there that require to be taken out to fix the system... Is it 200, 2000, 20,000 ? I don't know as it well above my level i'm crap at maths skills can do basic maths skills though so at least that's something.

lanza

samjef11 wrote: »

We will have to keep adapting to the system no matter what.

I see where you are coming from the people if these big banks and other company's are too full of greed right?

well yes. to a degree but greed is important at times..from the classic movie "Wall Street".

Gordon Gekko: The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of it’s forms – greed for life, for money, knowledge – has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed –

This type of person makes things happen, if their activities are regulated by society and they still have some kind of empathy for society then things work usually. There is too many of them now.

The problem is this type of person would often rather die than be beaten in their chosen focus, as they have very addictive personalities. They will lie, cheat whatever to keep their addiction going. They cannot be reformed or trusted in any way.

they need taken out the game and replaced with a new generation, trained and tested to have a different approach. They wont resign. Shame is an alien concept. They are smarter, more persistent and will stoop to almost anything. Thats why there can be no deals with them. The majority of them need kicked out and replaced with an upgraded model.

IrishGypsy

lanza wrote: »

The bank never needs to overdraw you, if you dont have an overdraft arranged. That should be a decision. i.e. The cashpoint could give you an option, do you want to arrange an instant overdraft.

This is about the bank plastering snowball charges (not telling you) over errors and trifles, or putting you in the red when you have given them no green light to do so.

Just something here I should help clarify: Pretty much all - bricks and mortar - retailers have a 'floor limit' - a value for which all transactions below this are not sent to the bank for pre-authorisation. This is important, because if the merchant themselves don't speak to the bank to check your balance, how in God's green earth are any banks supposed to know you've done said transaction?

Unfortunately Floor Limits are never publicly revealed (but watch a Chip and Pin transaction, in say, McDonalds for a meal and it'll authorise almost immedately, FAR too quick to seek pre-authorisation from the bank).

And don't forget, when you enter in your PIN number (regardless of whether or not you have the funds available), you're effectively saying: "I have enough money for the goods or service I'm now recieving, please pay this merchant what I've agreed to". YOU put in the PIN, YOU authorised the transaction, YOU are saying 'PAY THIS'.

Also - as far as Santander is concerned - they have a £150 unarranged monthly fee 'cap' and I've seen this cap work multiple times. They also have a cap on a maximum of 3 paid or unpaid charges on a single day. I've seen this in action as well for customers who's bills all come out on the same day.

But at the end of the day - whether you or I like it or not - a bank's primary responsibility is to it's shareholders. Ultimately whilst Santander help pay my bills off and keep and roof over my head, and puts food in my belly, I too must tow the company line.

There's lots in this world I don't like, but if it's between fighting for lower bank charges against my employer or keeping a job that keeps me alive (in an economy where jobs aren't exactly easy to get). Well, it's a bit of a no-brainer for me really...

lanza

IrishGypsy wrote: »

Just something here I should help clarify: Pretty much all - bricks and mortar - retailers have a 'floor limit' - a value for which all transactions below this are not sent to the bank for pre-authorisation. This is important, because if the merchant themselves don't speak to the bank to check your balance, how in God's green earth are any banks supposed to know you've done said transaction?

Unfortunately Floor Limits are never publicly revealed (but watch a Chip and Pin transaction, in say, McDonalds for a meal and it'll authorise almost immedately, FAR too quick to seek pre-authorisation from the bank).

Well this needs tested to determine if its real or not.

I had several pre-paid debit cards, maestro, visa etc, that anybody can get from post offices or even grocery stores. I had been using them up till very recently.

No matter what i did i could never go into a negative balance. The retailers always checked. Why ? because since anybody can get one of these cards under any name, there is little way to reclaim an overdraw. The fee is only £5 a year for the card (they make their money from 0.5% per transaction). The only reason i changed my prepaid debit to visa debit was for the convenience of moving money from my santander savings account to their debit card. The principle of the santander debit is the same as a prepaid debit card. Topup and buy. No overdraft.

This is just rubbish about floor limits. These companies and the banks have simply just not put into place a balance check between themsevles, i.e. MacDonalds and Santander Visa Debit, because there is no incentive for them to do so and the conning of the consumer provides an incentive to keep it like it is. As i have just shown their system is fully capable of check and reject.

And don't forget, when you enter in your PIN number (regardless of whether or not you have the funds available), you're effectively saying: "I have enough money for the goods or service I'm now recieving, please pay this merchant what I've agreed to". YOU put in the PIN, YOU authorised the transaction, YOU are saying 'PAY THIS'.

These cards are designed to make life easy for trivial paymets. So we dont have to keep finding cash machines, and carrying cash. Its because we have busy lives juggling a zillion things which stretch the human brain capacity that we have all this tech. Cars with instruments that do this and that, satnavs, Computers, calenders, to do lists on your laptop, microwave presets etc etc... and banking to facilitate trivial payments. Even these systems makes errors and they are more perfect than human at these tasks. Do we get to charge the systems 800,000% for their errors. No we get blamed and assumed guilty and lately customer services (in santander) does not even exist and the managers do not look at evidence. they just roll out, its your responsibility, i am sorry we cannot check if its our error. Put in a complaint (which will take half a year and far too much of your time and patience to be worthwhile).

People here make ridiculous suggestions like carry around a notepad and note every transaction, calculate pending payments yourself to avoid problems. Great thats what this technology is supposed to make easier. It was easier to carry cash. Thats why you have to do to stop yourself getting scammed they really mean. That still wont help you if the system makes a fault. To guard against that you need to have large cash reserves and have read all the small print backwards as if it were a full time college module, then go into the branch and ask for clarification that you have understood it. mmmm how long would that take....a few days of full time work and at least possession of a decent IQ.

The system itself should simply check your balance as i have shown it is fully capable of doing. If you run your card, out well then you go find a cash machine. Thats how simple it should be for this trivial service. Better still the customer can determine an available balance at cash points, so on a busy day, they can know how much they have. Most people remember are running around being stretched to the max by their jobs and everyday responsibilies, especially today.

Then take in everyday faults with technology, or just life, and there is all kinds of wobblers that get thrown into this equation. Thats real life. These cards are supposed to make that easier, not run you into the ground for thousands over minor errors.

Personally i do not know if this current system got designed to catch you out or simply self organized and it proved to profitable to alter, and then was manipulated later. With the bank laywers clever action against the OFT supreme court recently and the hiking of charges to loan shark territory, we can for sure say that the system is now fully intended to be a scam earner that operates on the basis of catching out everyday normal error, who-evers fault it is. Bank technology or stretched bank user...its all now setup to destroy you in a loan shark manner over trivialities.

Also - as far as Santander is concerned - they have a £150 unarranged monthly fee 'cap' and I've seen this cap work multiple times. They also have a cap on a maximum of 3 paid or unpaid charges on a single day. I've seen this in action as well for customers who's bills all come out on the same day.

Thats nice of them. So i guess we can just say its the difference between getting shafted for 3000 to 1900 a year over a few trifling errors that cost them nothing and are often their fault.

But at the end of the day - whether you or I like it or not - a bank's primary responsibility is to it's shareholders. Ultimately whilst Santander help pay my bills off and keep and roof over my head, and puts food in my belly, I too must tow the company line.

Typical sociopaths getout, and actually completely wrong. Shareholders are shafted in this as well. Mostly they get tiny amounts and directors skim of the bulk of the profits and massive amounts they pay each other. I tow the company line...so how far do you tow the company line.

Are you a manager who makes decision on refunds by any chance ?

There's lots in this world I don't like, but if it's between fighting for lower bank charges against my employer or keeping a job that keeps me alive (in an economy where jobs aren't exactly easy to get). Well, it's a bit of a no-brainer for me really...

You have no brains if you think any of this pathetic drivel contributes anything to this topic. Its people with your mindset that typify the rot i am talking about here. Most evil in the world is commited by people with excuses like this. I needed my job. I was just following orders.