Penalty Charge Notice advice please

andym122

Hi,

My partner recently got one of these from City Permits Ltd whilst using my parking space in the block of flats I rent.

The flat comes with a parking bay and a permit for the bay but my flatmate has misplaced the permit. We left a note in the car to explain this but were still issued with a ticket for not displaying a valid permit. We have tried to appeal but got a standard decline saying we entered into a contract etc. and that legal action will be taken if the fine isn't paid (£65 rising to £85)

One other note - we have been trying to get a replacement permit from City Permits but the payment always declines on their website (This is an error on their website as there is plenty of money in the bank account) so we have no option but to display a note in the car.

Can anyone offer any advice? Do we just ignore them now and go to court if they decide to take matters further?

Thanks for any help.

HO87

Assuming that you rent you flat and that a parking space comes with the lease how can you have entered into a contract with City Permits that subverts your lease?

I suggest you check the wording of your lease. If you have a space as a right then you also have a right to "peaceful enjoyment" of it and City Permits have no right to interfere with that - signs or no signs.

Coupon-mad

And you say it's a PENALTY Charge Notice? Is that really what they have put as the heading on the fake ticket? They cannot issue penalties and should only claim it to be a (piece of rubbish) Parking Charge Notice.

Ignore the PPC themselves, but deal with the lease issue direct with your Managing Agents - if your lease gives you the right to park in a space then tell them that their parking agents have trespassed against your vehicle and are expressly forbidden to touch it again. Complain - and point out that if you have a right to park in a space then you do NOT need to display a permit and jump through any made-up hoops set up by a third party scam firm.

andym122

Yes, it explicitly states "Penalty Charge Notice" at the top.

I can understand why they company is trying to stop people from parking in my/other permit holders spots without permits. Given that I do hold the permit for the parking bay but wasn't able to display it at this time, I don't think they should be trying to charge me.

vax2002

If it says penalty charge notice I would report the matter to the police and see what they think about people posting fake penalty charge notices and what this does for official ones...

andym122

Thanks.

Here is the reply from City Permits:

Unfortunately your parking penalty charge still remains payable due to the fact that your permit wasn't on show. There are signs clearly displayed around the car park stating that a valid permit must be displayed at all times and any found contravening the terms and conditions are therefore contractually agreeing to pay the fixed penalty fine.

With regards to you flat mate misplacing the permit you do not have a valid permit to display and therefore also need to order a new permit from our website below at the cost of £6 so that you do not receive any more tickets, once we have received payment for both the fine and also the new permit a new permit will be issued to yourself.

This will be our final decision about your appeal. It needs to paid either within the 14days at the cost of £60 or after that it will increase to £85 and if this still has not been paid after 28days then it will be passed on to our legal team who will then take legal action over it and this may incur more charges to yourself.
Regards Craig



Customer Services
City Permits Ltd.
PO Box 191
LEEDS
LS12 9AS

sarahg1969

So, it's gone from being a penalty charge notice to a fixed penalty! Naughty.

andym122

sarahg1969 wrote: »

So, it's gone from being a penalty charge notice to a fixed penalty! Naughty.

I'm naughty or they are?! They also claim its a fine which, after reading the post by Martin Lewis, it seems they can't do?

The ticket does say "Penalty Charge Notice" at the top. Not PCN or anything else. Can I really report them to the police for this? If they are not legally allowed to do this, I will report them to the appropiate body.

halibut2209

Scandalous!

Tell them to **** off and that you will continue to park there WITHOUT a permit and look forward to seeing them in court.

The_Slithy_Tove

Andym122,

There are a number of threads here in a similar vein. It seems all to common in leasehold properties, where the management company (or their agents in the form of a PPC) are acting unlawfully in this way.

You need to check your lease (if you are renting, you'll need to get this from the landlord, or one of your neighbours may be able to let you see theirs). Does it mention parking, and a specific space allocated to your flat? If so, and if it also says nothing about parking permits (which it probably won't), then the space is yours to use as you see fit. You do not need a permit, and any attempt to interfere with your car (ticket or worse, clamp/tow) would be unlawful and land the management company and parking company in deep water. You must write to the management company telling them that you have no obligation to show a permit, and that they will be jointly liable for any losses if their agent (parking company) does anything to your (or your flatmate's) car.

Coupon-mad

andym122 wrote: »

I'm naughty or they are?! They also claim its a fine which, after reading the post by Martin Lewis, it seems they can't do?

The ticket does say "Penalty Charge Notice" at the top. Not PCN or anything else. Can I really report them to the police for this? If they are not legally allowed to do this, I will report them to the appropiate body.

Report them to Trading Standards but not the Police as they will take no action and say it's a civil matter. If they are members of the BPA you can report the for a COP breach (not that the BPA will do anything as it's just the PPCs' club, but it means another complaint logged if you also copy in the DVLA to the complaint).

And I would reply and say:

'Thankyou for your final decision confirming that your 'charge' is in fact an unlawful, unenforceable penalty. I will forward your reply and the unlawful fake PCN to the relevant authorities. You should take notice that only the Police can issue a Fixed Penalty and you cannot lawfully pass your extortionate invoice off as a Police ticket. Nor can you claim this 'fixed penalty' in any Court.

I will not be paying nor replying again; this will be my final decision about your fake fixed penalty'.