Just had to share this with you...

WhiteHorse

rinabean wrote: »

Maybe not, but hindsight is 20/20.

But we are not talking about hindsight. We are not talking about new information or discoveries. "What are we going to do with it all?" is a blindingly obvious question.

When you have the opportunity to improve your children's lives - and save yourself time and money, too! - not many will think about the possible effect on their grandchildren, or their children, or theirs.

Which says it all, really. "I'm allright Jack, screw the next generation".

zeupater

rinabean wrote: »

You're counting the same thing twice. If you want to say that a plastic bag does not take "1 unit" as you're using it twice, you can say a plastic bag is only "0.5 units", yes. But that doesn't change the unit cost of the canvas bag. That's still 400. It's only now 2x good as it was to use the plastic bag because you halved its cost (by using it twice). Multiplying the cost of the canvas bag by two on top of this would be equivalent to using the bag 4 times.

It's 0.5 to 400 instead of 1 to 400. This is also 1 to 800, but not 0.5 to 800.

(I hope one or both of these explanations makes sense! I'm rubbish at explaining things.)

Hi

This is correct, but there's another way of looking at it which would give 0:400/0:800 (or any other figure (x) you would like to put against the zero (0:x)) ....

We're pretty green and recycle almost everything to an extent where the total disposable waste is usually two small kitchen bin loads per 2 weeks (bin collection interval).

We use the disposable carrier bags to line the bin, tie the handles when full and drop the bagload into the wheelybin ... this both saves buying binliners and keeps the inside of both the kitchen bin and the wheelybin clean, therefore no(/less) embedded energy requirement to clean them out.

It could therefore be said that as the plastic carrier bags are displacing a requirement for kitchen binliners the environmental cost is zero ....

Well, there's a point for discussion as long as you only receive as many carrier bags as you would use as binliners ...

Food(bags) for thought ?
Z

zeupater

jeanniebeanie wrote: »

Not exactly moneysaving at £29.95 I know, and yes I do know that amount equates to LOADS of 5p plastic bags,but I have one of these on order due to arrive tomorrow using some birthday money. I actually think they are rather nice and am fed up of carrying loads of bulky bags to the supermarket.

http://www.zpm.com/products/living/trolley-dolly/default.aspx

ETA At the time of my ordering there was an offer for free postage.

Hi

We do exactly the same with our reusable bags ... just fold all but one of them up and put them inside the last one .... doesn't everyone do that ? ..... same effect, cheaper option ....

HTH
Z

MessyMare

jeanniebeanie wrote: »

Not exactly moneysaving at £29.95 I know, and yes I do know that amount equates to LOADS of 5p plastic bags,but I have one of these on order due to arrive tomorrow using some birthday money. I actually think they are rather nice and am fed up of carrying loads of bulky bags to the supermarket.

http://www.zpm.com/products/living/trolley-dolly/default.aspx

ETA At the time of my ordering there was an offer for free postage.

Oh. My. God. I love this. I was considering getting a wicker shopping basket (as it could double up for picnics etc) but NOW you've shown me this! Just sent an e-mail to mum asking for one for Christmas!

rinabean

WhiteHorse wrote: »

But we are not talking about hindsight. We are not talking about new information or discoveries. "What are we going to do with it all?" is a blindingly obvious question.

Which says it all, really. "I'm allright Jack, screw the next generation".

Not talking about new discoveries? So you think in the 1860s they could foresee the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, but stupidly ignored it? You think in the 1930s they thought that there'd be an ozone hole over Australia, because that was so obvious? It's not like one particularly selfish generation decided to destroy everything. You know that these islands used to be one big forest, right? You can't blame everything on baby-boomers. A lot, yes, but not everything! So stop trying to.

zeupater wrote: »

It could therefore be said that as the plastic carrier bags are displacing a requirement for kitchen binliners the environmental cost is zero ....

I've wondered this - it seems to me that carrier bags, being reused, are "greener" than using binbags. But I'm not so sure that cleaning it out would use more energy. Nowadays, at least where I live, you're not supposed to be putting food in the main bin, and that's surely what makes bins so gross. If the bin is just for waste that doesn't rot down quickly but can't be recycled, it probably wouldn't need much cleaning even without bags. I've not tested it, though. Everything in the blue bin is either cleaned out or not dirty in the first place, so that doesn't need bags. Brown bins get pretty manky even if you do use bags, so maybe carrier bags as binbags isn't the best way any more? I don't have the figures to back me up but it seems reasonable. These things aren't really very obvious at all, though, are they? :rotfl: Of course not throwing anything away would be best but I don't think I could manage it.

zeupater

rinabean wrote: »

....... I've wondered this - it seems to me that carrier bags, being reused, are "greener" than using binbags. But I'm not so sure that cleaning it out would use more energy. Nowadays, at least where I live, you're not supposed to be putting food in the main bin, and that's surely what makes bins so gross. If the bin is just for waste that doesn't rot down quickly but can't be recycled, it probably wouldn't need much cleaning even without bags. I've not tested it, though. Everything in the blue bin is either cleaned out or not dirty in the first place, so that doesn't need bags. Brown bins get pretty manky even if you do use bags, so maybe carrier bags as binbags isn't the best way any more? I don't have the figures to back me up but it seems reasonable. These things aren't really very obvious at all, though, are they? :rotfl: Of course not throwing anything away would be best but I don't think I could manage it.

Hi

We only have standard separate recycling of garden/paper/plastics/cardboard/glass/metals/batteries/cfls ... everthing else should go in the general waste wheelybin, but in our case we compost what we can too. The only foodstuff which goes into waste is really bones, the rice scrapings from the bottom of a saucepan and eggshells (yes I know that it's possible to compost the shells too ... it's just that I usually forget )

The embedded energy I referred to for cleaning the bins out would be what's required to treat and deliver the water and, of course, it's much easier to do with warm water or a pressure washer ..

We go out of our way to be a little greener than most, but I think that a single carrier bag per week isn't going to make any difference at all, especially as it use just displaces a dedicated binliner anyway .... another way of looking at it is that the supermarket carrier-bags are biodegradable and the last time I looked the dedicated binliners weren't .... another plus for recycling then ...

HTH
Z

jeanniebeanie_2

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

We do exactly the same with our reusable bags ... just fold all but one of them up and put them inside the last one .... doesn't everyone do that ? ..... same effect, cheaper option ....

HTH
Z

You are right of course- it is a gift to myself with birthday money and I am not here to try to persuade anyone else to buy one, just thought they may be of interest to someone else out there. I did find them quite stylish and liked the drawstring fruit veg bags that you can use to wash and store produce and the new style different shape bags for bottles/ pizzas etc., but hey, any way you shop without all those plastics got to be good. Don't disagree for a moment that it is a pricy option, it's just one I am happy to pay for!

WhiteHorse

rinabean wrote: »

Not talking about new discoveries?

You know you are going to produce millions of near-indestructible plastic bags. Wondering what you are going to do with them all is hardly rocket science.

You can't blame everything on baby-boomers. A lot, yes, but not everything! So stop trying to.

Other generations were also extremely destructive, albeit in a more limited way.

What makes the boomers different is that they had some knowledge with regard to the consequences of their actions.

Fruball

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

We only have standard separate recycling of garden/paper/plastics/cardboard/glass/metals/batteries/cfls ... everthing else should go in the general waste wheelybin, but in our case we compost what we can too. The only foodstuff which goes into waste is really bones, the rice scrapings from the bottom of a saucepan and eggshells (yes I know that it's possible to compost the shells too ... it's just that I usually forget )

The embedded energy I referred to for cleaning the bins out would be what's required to treat and deliver the water and, of course, it's much easier to do with warm water or a pressure washer ..

We go out of our way to be a little greener than most, but I think that a single carrier bag per week isn't going to make any difference at all, especially as it use just displaces a dedicated binliner anyway .... another way of looking at it is that the supermarket carrier-bags are biodegradable and the last time I looked the dedicated binliners weren't .... another plus for recycling then ...

HTH
Z

I use SM plastic bags as bin liners too (in fact I don't have a bin, just a bag hanging on cupboard handle as I hate bin juice :eek: and I just take the bag to the wheelie bin every day)... and if you factor in the manufacture, packaging and transport of bin liners PLUS bin, its more eco friendly to use plastic shopping bags, surely? I might be wrong but that is my take on it. Also, not having a bin means there was no manufacture and transport costs to make a vessel in which to chuck my rubbish. (I have had 'designer' bins in the past... waste of money and resources, and in my case, space)

Also, egg shells just get collected, crushed when dry and thrown out onto the flower/veg beds to annoy the slugs/snails

I think my biggest gripe with SM bags is that they have now made them thinner so you can't fill them as they split, so end up using twice as many :cool:

My fav 'green' thing atm is melting candle ends with tumble dryer fluff and spooning them into egg boxes for firelighters :rotfl: All stuff that would usually end up in said bin (bag!)

Tea_Hee_23

FarmersWife wrote: »

Green Thing

Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the older woman, that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized and explained, "We didn't have this green thing back in my earlier days."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations."

She was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled. But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks. But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's nappies because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 3 kw -- wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that young lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of Hampshire . In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity. But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull. But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the tram or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their mums into a 24-hour taxi service. We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?


Cx

Ahhh this made me chuckle, fantastic read!