Just had to share this with you...

hattifattener

This bugs me. I walk up stairs, use cloth nappies and hand-me-downs on my son, have one (second-hand) tv and a (second hand) push mower and no car and I'm 24. Mostly because these things are cheap.

Of course, that doesn't count, because I'm just doing the 'green thing' and when the next trend comes along I'm going to chuck it all in the sea and buy some plastic. Lots and lots of plastic.

There have always been varying degrees of personal 'green-ness' or 'wastefulness' in whatever generation you come from, whether intentional or as a by-product of the lifestyle people want to lead anyway.

oldtractor

I've also noticed that a lot of older women still wear thin tights and skirts and a coat often with no hat and gloves and shoes not boots. They must be freezing, they seem to think that layering and wearing leggings and skirts.trousers sweater,scarf etc shows you cant afford to heat your home. Many in our village have lots of lights on at night,and looking through the windows you can see them sat watching t dressed in thin clothes no rug on knee or anything. heating must be on. bet their houses are warmer then mine and yet they still moan about the cost of oil. Its sort of a false pride thing. And not at all green.

scheming_gypsy

meritaten wrote: »

you have TEN carrier bags of shopping??????????? order online hun!

Quite often I will (although I don't do a big shop that often), but I refuse to cram as much into a bag as humanly possible.
I've done online shopping once, I would do it more often but I sit looking at the screen wondering what I want and then I flick over to something else. 12 hours later I'll have a tin of beans in my basket and spent about £80 on eBay and ordered a takeaway... Then I'll end up going to Asda the next day.

sonastin

Environmental stuff is way more complicated than "disposable is bad". The side effects of doing what is necessary to re-use need to be balanced against the environmental cost of throwing away and starting over. Take nappies for example. Disposable nappies clog landfill sites. But in order to reuse cloth nappies, they need to be washed at high temperatures. That requires a huge amount of energy to power the washing machine and heat the water. Energy could be generated in a sustainable way but at present, not a lot of it is. Also, the washing machine will chuck out a wastewater which is a very environmentally unfriendly mix of baby poo and soap. Again, the soap could be biodegradable but the waste isn't fit for putting the river so it needs treating and sewage works use more power. So you need to take a view on the energy costs and pollution involved in re-using cloth nappies against the pollution cost and raw material costs of disposables.

Its rarely an easy answer.

meritaten

I think that you have to do what feels 'right' for you! my personal bugbear is the amount of carrier bags which are just discarded into the environment. proper disposal of them when they are no longer re-usable isnt a problem to me. its those thoughtless people who just wont put them in recycling bins! instead chuck them anywhere and leave them for others to deal with!
this is why I dont use plastic carrier bags if I can possibly help it!
as for the disposable v washable nappies debate. early disposable nappies were dreadful! covered in thick plastic. today companies make disposables of more bio-degradable fabrics. so yes, it is a toss up which nappy to use!
I do try to be environmentally friendly - and that is the point isnt it? for people to be aware that they are using resources and to try to conserve them?
Unless we live like hermits on the hill and are totally self sufficient - then we ARE going to use resources - the point is to minimise them!

richj

thisokbaba wrote: »

It is however a nice issue for the media/politicians to latch on to to make themselves look "green".

this is really true.

the whole green argument is very complicated and I haven't seen 1 debate on tv yet where both sides have dug deeper than the usual superficial arguments...

lauroar

Minihauk wrote: »

I am not sure this is correct. Surely if you reuse the canvas bag the impact lessens each time, it doesn't increase. :cool:

Hmm maybe I'm misunderstanding the data but this is how I see it. If you say, for ease, that a plastic bag takes 1 "environmental units" of energy to create and the canvas bag takes 400 "environmental units" to create... 2 uses of the plastic bag = 0.5 units per use so for the canvas bag to 'save energy' you would have to use it over 800 times for the cost per use to be less than 0.5 units?

Please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't want to make this point in discussions if I'm misunderstanding it!

rinabean

lauroar wrote: »

Hmm maybe I'm misunderstanding the data but this is how I see it. If you say, for ease, that a plastic bag takes 1 "environmental units" of energy to create and the canvas bag takes 400 "environmental units" to create... 2 uses of the plastic bag = 0.5 units per use so for the canvas bag to 'save energy' you would have to use it over 800 times for the cost per use to be less than 0.5 units?

Please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't want to make this point in discussions if I'm misunderstanding it!

You're counting the same thing twice. If you want to say that a plastic bag does not take "1 unit" as you're using it twice, you can say a plastic bag is only "0.5 units", yes. But that doesn't change the unit cost of the canvas bag. That's still 400. It's only now 2x good as it was to use the plastic bag because you halved its cost (by using it twice). Multiplying the cost of the canvas bag by two on top of this would be equivalent to using the bag 4 times.

It's 0.5 to 400 instead of 1 to 400. This is also 1 to 800, but not 0.5 to 800.

(I hope one or both of these explanations makes sense! I'm rubbish at explaining things.)

pollypenny

The 5p charge for bags is a real success in Wales - most people are well are of environmental costs and are happy to carry their own bags.

I've never seen older women dressed inadequately as Old Tractor described. BTW thick skirts with a petticoat under are warmer than trousers, anyway.

jeanniebeanie_2

Not exactly moneysaving at £29.95 I know, and yes I do know that amount equates to LOADS of 5p plastic bags,but I have one of these on order due to arrive tomorrow using some birthday money. I actually think they are rather nice and am fed up of carrying loads of bulky bags to the supermarket.

http://www.zpm.com/products/living/trolley-dolly/default.aspx

ETA At the time of my ordering there was an offer for free postage.