Paid in - has she??

Mikeyorks

Lokolo wrote: »

So not sure how they would recognise that a self transfer has taken place (unless they also send closing balances)

I can't remember whether they do that - or a closure date. But HMRC can recognise that there aren't 2 x concurrent cash ISAs for the same year.

.. and then if so, why only limit self transfers to one a year?

Because the one is a concession. It was primarily intended for those who by accident or unusual design closed their cash ISA. So it gives them a chance of redeeming this years subscription only. But only the one chance - thereafter it's malicious and they should be shot! (with due apologies to Mr Clarkson)

srcandas

Evening guys

I think I will approach the AA and ask if they would be happy. Problem is they specifically state "You can't subscribe to more than one cash ISA in the same tax year." So even they I may not break HMRC rules as written (as opposed to stated) I would be in breach of AA T&Ts. You could say do not worry but when I think just how stupid Northern Rock were

If I get a provider who is happy then I will do it and certainly let you know. I am also going to write to HMRC referencing the data you have offered and asking specifically when they changed the rules and for a reference to the change.

We will see. To be honest we are talking about a £100 more or less. So suing them for damages hardly seems worthwhile

:beer:

Mikeyorks

srcandas wrote: »

. Problem is they specifically state "You can't subscribe to more than one cash ISA in the same tax year."

That is a direct crib from the HMRC 'model' application form. Which is why I carefully said at post #7 :

You just treat it as though the original was never open and start afresh.

....... in other words you simply answer 'No' to the part of the application that asks if you've already contributed this year. Because you no longer have. If you start asking their advice, discussing what happened with NR etc .... you will simply draw a noose around your neck.
In this respect it is no different to opening a Cash ISA this year - then transferring it to a Stock and Share ISA. Then getting a windfall and opening another Cash ISA. Perfectly acceptable and, in the words of HMRC :-

This means that the investor is regarded as never having subscribed to the cash ISA.

.... but, acceptable or otherwise, if you attempted to indicate on the 2nd cash application form that you had already contributed in that tax year ...... you wouldn't get the 2nd one open, with any provider. So you simply answer 'No' and leave HMRC to neutralise any issues once they get the annual Returns in from all the ISA providers.

srcandas

Mike I understand your sentiments but to be honest it is no big deal for me. I would rather get it resolved so HMRC give the correct info than worry about getting round it. Sadly I may not succeed.

I called HMRC and they put me through to a technical. I gave him the statement by Patrick O'Brien and referenced the legislation and their example. He went away for 25 minutes to do research, called me back, and offered that he had passed it on for a decision and that I would hear back end of next week. He added that as the bank had made an error that a concession may be made. I tried to explain that I did not want a concession but a ruling as I was not the only person interested. Not sure he fully understood.

So I'll get back next week :beer:

Mikeyorks

srcandas wrote: »

I called HMRC and they put me through to a technical. I gave him the statement by Patrick O'Brien and referenced the legislation and their example. He went away for 25 minutes to do research, called me back, and offered that he had passed it on for a decision and that I would hear back end of next week. He added that as the bank had made an error that a concession may be made. I tried to explain that I did not want a concession but a ruling as I was not the only person interested. Not sure he fully understood.

Fairly frightening. Even up to recently the dedicated ISA helpline had a good reputation for knowledge and helpfulness. I can only assume it's suffered the same fate as other public contact areas of HMRC and frontline experience has been abandoned in favour of simply getting the calls answered ...... accurately or otherwise. But you would expect a background technical officer to know the answer off pat. ISAs aren't that complicated.

srcandas

Wil

Indeed they were offered the Spanish passport and declined to accept it even when challenged. They replied to this in writing.

And I would have certainly pursued your points especially once other organisations confirmed that they had no issues with a spanish (or any EU) passport.

But I will not pursue it as now it is part of Virgin and I am certain staff will be cut. And I have some confidence in Sir Bs team to weed out incompetence.

I guess I should ask if Virgin would accept a spanish passport. Perhaps I will

:beer:

srcandas

will-in-estoril wrote: »

I don't think it is too late to pursue. According to NR's website, either a passport or national ID card is valid. By refusing to accept a Spanish document at face value the bank has either discriminated or been grossly incompetent.

The monies returned to your partner will now not earn gross interest this tax year and for all subsequent years. If your partner can show loss due to either incompetence or discrimination then compensation could be sought.

Will if HMRC do not allow the self transfer I will revisit it. Of course if they do allow it we are talking about less than one months interest on £5000. About £13 so not worth the hassle. :beer:

srcandas

Well today I heard from HMRC by telephone.

After explaining that they were not responsible for Northern Rock procedures and stating that a self close was dangerous except under very specific circumstances and not advised they offered that in the case of my wife it was not a problem as the first ISA was fully closed.

I stated that every thing they were saying was as offered by their website and as confirmed by their press office but was contary to the information offered by their help line.

The guy at HMRC said that he would try and address this.

Well many thanks guys for all the good info and hopefully this might help others :beer:

Lokolo

Good to hear it's all sorted.

Mikeyorks

srcandas wrote: »

and stating that a self close was dangerous except under very specific circumstances

Those would be the circumstances that applied in your case then?

The guy at HMRC saisd that he would try and address this.

A half day training course would cover everything needed on ISAs! Overall you don't need much more knowledge than how to run the washer / dishwasher in your house? ISAs are not that complicated. And it's pretty scandalous that customers know more than the 'experts'. Simply because the detail is now addressable on the web. From where, of course, their staff could have a read - if so minded to find out what they should know.

I'm not having a go at HMRC .... as the same situation applies right across the Customer Service ambit of UK Plc. Where lack of in-depth knowledge of the products offered by their business is now rampant.