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Tenants rights in terms of 'quiet enjoyment'
Comments
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My days are quiet as well because up until now there has been no music during the day, especially during weekends, because I was told this was the arrangement when I moved in.
Unless this forms part of your tenancy agreement I doubt there is much you can do, unless of course the pub doesn't have a music licence. Personally if I didn't like too much noise I'd never live above commercial premises no matter what promises (unless legal) were made, just far too risky.It's someone else's fault.0 -
Who pays the council tax ? - Are you each paying individual rents ?Short version - six of us rent two floors residentially above a two floor pub in London. The landlords occasionally use the kitchen to prepare food and we rarely make any objection to that. I can't think of an occasion where they haven't given us 24 hours notice.I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.0 -
No written tenancy agreement, utility costs included in the rent ( same meters as pub premises beneath?) , a pub that offers food but "doesn't officially do food" ( so presumably not registered via the EHO at the local Council)? A LL who hasn't got clear boundaries between the lettings area upstairs and the pub business?
Are you all on the electoral roll at this address? Registered for Council Tax ( or is that included in your rent also?)
Smells a bit "under the radar" .....
OP - do the others have formal tenancy agreements and, if yes, are they still within their original Fixed Terms? Can you answer G_M's questions?
Were there questions from GM I missed? Apologies if so - I thought I'd answered everything so if there's something else you need to know, please ask and I will do my best.
In the meantime, yes - it does seem very under the radar. I raised these concerns with them last year when wanting to go on the electoral roll. To be more specific:
- I don't have a written agreement because when I first moved in, they provided me with a written contract but I raised some questions with them first. These included arranging a move-in inspection and answering some specific questions on the terms of the contract. No answers were provided pending them "getting back to me". I am now almost two years into living there, so beyond the terms of the original contract if that has any relevance.
- The pub itself has no kitchen or food preparation area, outside of if you include the one in our flat. It briefly offered hot pies in a small heated unit on the bar counter, but no longer does.
- I am on the electoral roll, although my flatmates aren't because well, I don't think they really care. With relevance to council tax, I asked the landlords about this before joining the roll and they told me that we are registered and they pay the council tax for us. I have never seen proof of this, but equally couldn't say outright that they don't.
- I will have to further investigate whether this is an HMO or not, as this is a new term to me. I'd rather not ask the landlords outright as this will inevitably get their suspicions up, possibly unnecessarily.
- At least some of my flatmates have formal tenancy agreements that they've signed. Two or three will still be in the original contract period. The other two have been there longer than I have - one signed a contract and will be out of that initial period, and the other is in the same situation as me without ever signing one.
To make it clear, as personable as the landlords can sometimes be, they are highly unprofessional to say the least at times (occassionally turning up drunk from downstairs in our lounge, telling us a day before when a new tenant is moving in who then never shows, fixing things on the cheap or not at all, passing on gossip about pub staff etc.). This isn't usually a problem, but is becoming more so in light of everything else.
Anything else, please ask.0 -
Problem is, whatever your actual rights are, if you insist on them you might get thrown out. That's the way things are sadly. So if you want to stay, I would find out your rights re HMO etc. and use it as a negotiating tool. What would be an acceptable outcome? Slight rent reduction? Shorter time for the bands? Free sausage rolls?0
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We do not share premises with the landlord if you mean in terms of them living there. They live off-site. We have a streetdoor with two flights of stairs up to our residential property. The pub has a staff access door which also accesses these front door, but otherwise they are separate premises. Practically, anyway.
I think you need to check the specific wording of your agreement to see if you are renting a room or renting the flat.
Someone else may be able to clarify this but you could have more complications because it is a pub. Pubs have flats in them because of the nature of the work. Often there are live in landlords and/or guest rooms. It might be a case that the flat is actually (according to the buildings lease) part of the pub rather than being a separate entity. If this is the case then your landlord is resident even if they do not live on site because they use it as their business premises.
In this particular case I would let them have their first Sunday evening event and see how it actually impacts on you. Make a note of any problems and (if they decide to make it a regular event) see if you can renegotiate on your rent. Of course, you might find that the whole event is a flop and they decide not to continue.0 -
That could be interesting. Tenants get awarded all their rent back. Pub goes bust as a result. Tenants homeless.:(
Tenant gets over £10k back, tenant moves into nicer flat with sizeable deposit..
Seriously though, at the moment I feel like I've paid my rent for what I expected to receive in return so I don't know if I'd want to pursue this despite the money involved.
Generally speaking, we're all very happy with the flat we live in. It's the past few months where things have really started to deteriorate, but this is all highly useful (and appreciated) nonetheless.0 -
Tenant gets over £10k back, tenant moves into nicer flat with sizeable deposit..
Seriously though, at the moment I feel like I've paid my rent for what I expected to receive in return so I don't know if I'd want to pursue this despite the money involved.
Generally speaking, we're all very happy with the flat we live in. It's the past few months where things have really started to deteriorate, but this is all highly useful (and appreciated) nonetheless.
6 tenants = £60k = pub bankrupt = no money for tenant and no home:(.0 -
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6 tenants = £60k = pub bankrupt = no money for tenant and no home:(.
Firstly I was joking, and secondly they're only going to go bankrupt that quickly if they pay us that money in the first place.
Well, aside from their general incompetence but that's outside of my control anyway. Thanks for the input.0 -
serious_saver wrote: »I think you need to check the specific wording of your agreement to see if you are renting a room or renting the flat.
Someone else may be able to clarify this but you could have more complications because it is a pub. Pubs have flats in them because of the nature of the work. Often there are live in landlords and/or guest rooms. It might be a case that the flat is actually (according to the buildings lease) part of the pub rather than being a separate entity. If this is the case then your landlord is resident even if they do not live on site because they use it as their business premises.
In this particular case I would let them have their first Sunday evening event and see how it actually impacts on you. Make a note of any problems and (if they decide to make it a regular event) see if you can renegotiate on your rent. Of course, you might find that the whole event is a flop and they decide not to continue.
Thanks for this. From what I've understood in previous communications, according to the landlord anyway, we rent a room and not the flat.
Up until recently, we did have a live-in pub manager but he was the third they wanted to blame for the pub not making any money and so have now made the entire upstairs as residential only.0
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