Public Sector Strike(s)

SingleSue

olly300 wrote: »

There are teachers and TAs who quietly realise that they have a good deal. They only didn't go into work because their school was officially closed to the children.

BTW if public sector workers want to fight this they are going to have to fight this every 5 years as that's when elections are. Though if they do get dirty we will end up with a politician in charge like Thatcher.

No doubt there is...I would be the same. Unfortunately, the boys saw most of their teachers on the tub thumping parade.

CLAPTON

julieq wrote: »

No, the accrued costs of the bailout are what I said. You have to bear in mind that much of the bailout was about liquidity loans and guarantees, and the costs are essentially the loss in value of the nationalised banks, i.e. about £21B, and an outstanding loan to NR.

I brought trident up because it's one of the things we're told can be cut to fund pensions. Well that doesn't work for very long. Fortunately the banks pay enough tax to cover your tab, despite the vitriol many in the public sector have spat at them today.

And the cost of the pension subsidy is from Hutton. Contributions from members and employers don't come close to meeting the costs. The taxpayer picks up the tab. That means the private sector. So to be brutally frank you'd be better of saying thanks rather than going out on the attack, because that money is still on the table. Personally given the selfish and intransigent attitudes we've been seeing today, I'd just bang you all on defined contributions sharpish, but luckily for you the government wants to implement Hutton fairly.

Hutton is not a font of all knowledge
the figures and facts he gives are combined with judgement about 'fairness' and 'affordability'

now I have no problem with anyone having a view of what is fair or what is affordable but that is a JUDGEMENT and NOT a fact
whether he calls the cost of public pensions a subsidy or the 'cost of employment ' is a choice

and of course, remember is was one of those that was and IS an advoacte of us joinoing the EURO
pesonally I am willing to hear his facts but I don't go for his judgements

I'll sort out the figures for the bank bailout tomorrow

Emy1501

elantan wrote: »

i have not had a pay rise in over 5 years now .. so i am effectively earing less now that i was ... i have been told not to expect one for the foreseeable fututre ...i earn £2 ( poss more) an hour less than my unqualified counterpart in the public sector ( i'm fully qualified) i have lost all but ssp sick pay benefits ... i have lost two days annual leave ...

where is this magic 8-10% you talk about ? cause it sure aint happening in my work place ... and many others that i know

and i would like to just add ... atleast you get a pension ... i get nadda zilch zip all ... nothing and when i first started working i was due to retire at 60 currently i am 67 but i have no doubt it will go up again ... i tell ya what ... i'll swap jobs with a public sector worker for a year and we can see who gets the better deal ... are you offering ?

The average pay rise for a private sector work is between 2-2.5% at the moment. The fact you may not get it does not mean what you get is the average. I work in the private sector and maybe I'm offered decent pension scheme because my company cares about its staff. Why don't you go and get a job in the public sector if their better paid than you when you can do a better job.

Graham_Devon

julieq wrote: »

And incidentally the cost of pension subsidies annually to the public sector is about £32B (and the offer maintains that more or less). As a point of comparison, the ENTIRE trident program costs £97B. The total accrued cost of the bank bailout is something of the order of £37B (and that may reduce). It is a MASSIVE commitment to the public sector. In 5 years you cost the taxpayer more than a trident program plus a bank bailout round - that's something to consider when you witter on about banks. Oh, and the tax contribution of the banks annually is about £58B, which equates to about 11% of total tax take. Without the banks you wouldn't have a prayer of getting your pension.

Where are you getting the figure in bold from?

It's massively incorrect. Total cost was 2350% more than what you state.

The commitments include buying £76bn of shares in Royal Bank of Scotland and the Lloyds Banking Group; indemnifying the Bank of England against losses incurred in providing more than £200bn of liquidity support; guaranteeing up to £250bn of wholesale borrowing by banks to strengthen liquidity; providing £40bn of loans and other funding to Bradford & Bingley and the Financial Services Compensation Scheme; and insurance cover of over £280bn for bank assets.

These figures are from the National Audit Office. It totalled 850bn in 2009 alone.

It reached a peak of 955bn.

The scale of the support currently provided to UK banks has fallen from a peak of £955bn to £512bn, but the amount of cash currently borrowed by the government to support banks has risen by £7bn [to a total of £124bn] since December 2009.

dtsazza

julieq wrote: »

It'd be a race to the bottom if the offer was a defined contribution scheme or no pension at all. That is the "bottom" Hutton was talking about.

I don't think DC would even be anywhere near the bottom - I'd be happier to see public sector pensions switch to DC across the board, with something like 30% employer contributions. For one it would make clear their generosity in a way that could be directly compared, and additionally it would remove all questions of future funding (assuming they were held as true DC pensions in separate third-party accounts), as the contributions to a specific pension, plus investment growth would form the entirety of the funds used to pay said pension. It's immune to shortfalls, it's immune to raiding by governments and it's completely immune to retrospective changes as the money has already left the government's hands.

It's superior in every way except for the fact that the transition is nigh-on impossible, since there's already a pension shortfall. The treasury isn't able to pay existing pension liabilities from previous contributions (plus money set aside), so it's paying them out of current contributions. And it expects to pay those pensions out of future contributions. And it expects to pay those pensions... etc.

Anyway, with pensions a race to the bottom isn't the worst thing in the world. Racing salary to the bottom, i.e. £0 p.a., is pretty lethal. Reducing pensions to zero employer contribution is a shame but for most people is equivalent to a 5% or so pay cut. It's bad, but it's not the end of the world. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I want to see that; but as a worst-case scenario, it's relatively manageable.

dshart

darich wrote: »

So almost every government in europe and across the world was overspending simultaneously?
Try some research
http://www.mortgageguideuk.co.uk/blog/debt/credit-crunch-explained/

Please explain what the article you posted has to do with government spending? All that article explains is how the banks got into trouble with their sub-prime lending and how it impacts the housing market.

The only link you could say was that the recession led to a rise in government debt, but the country was already heavily in debt the difference now is that international markets are worried that governments may default on their debts and thus are reluctant to lend them any more.

elantan

Emy1501 wrote: »

The average pay rise for a private sector work is between 2-2.5% at the moment. The fact you may not get it does not mean what you get is the average. I work in the private sector and maybe I'm offered decent pension scheme because my company cares about its staff. Why don't you go and get a job in the public sector if their better paid than you when you can do a better job.

I've tried ... Believe me I've tried ... There's nothing in my area with my skill requirement

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

elantan wrote: »

I've tried ... Believe me I've tried ... There's nothing in my area with my skill requirement

Let's all shed a tear for the clearly underskilled electrician..... Honestly get over yourself no-one gives a **** about your sob story:beer:

elantan

Wouldn't mind an electricians wage actually ....but hope u don't mind old bean any sympathy I had for yourself ... Well u shot it outa the water ... U aint ever getting it back either

I_luv_cats

The PMQ's were like a Play-ground full of school children!! (disgusting show of authority)

Who do you believe Union strike figures V Gov. Strike figures??

Who do you believe Gov future GDP figures V OFS GDP figures??

Who do you believe on how much really will pensions be worth??

It's more like a scrap and creating more resentment between people!

Nobody can really make up their mind because we aren't told the full truth/picture??