Alternative to Storage Heaters

rogerblack

chris1973 wrote: »

These paraffin heaters also are 99% efficient, making them more efficient at producing heat than oil C.H or portable gas heating, they also dont emit the moisture associated with older gas bottle and traditional paraffin heaters.

Umm - no.

Unless they condense the water in the exhaust (which is in principle possible, but not done), they will emit exactly the same amount of water.

Around a sixth of the weight of paraffin is hydrogen.
When this is burned in air, it forms water, to a total weight of 4/3 the original paraffin.

This happens nomatter how modern the heater is, and unless it's externally vented, this ends up in your living room.

Richie-from-the-Boro

grahamc2003 wrote: »

That's just nonsense, but anyhow, are you saying you have storage heaters and that the output setting is always set to zero? Even last winter?

In that case, not only are your heaters oversized, but you are spending more on heating than you need to.

You are entitled to your view grahamc2003, and yes I'm proud to say my heaters are over-stored for my needs on the cheap rate stuff, after all I can afford to. You see my need to use the expensive rate stuff is so infrequent precisely because I am over-stored. This brings me to my second point they remain constantly over-stored precisely because the damper is never opened.

If you too had sufficient available cheap heat stored you too would hardly ever need more expensive supplementary heating, or if you did, and we all do from time to time as the weather turns and changes, the frequency and duration of the more expensive supplementary heating is very considerably less than would otherwise be the case precisely because I am over-stored

That's not nonesense that's common sense.

Bog standard house bought as a brand new build 23 years ago, open plan staircase no door in the house is ever closed except the loo, new replacement double gazing put in by myself and my brother three years ago [ anyone even a ten year old can install double glazing ] two of the three bedroom windows have never been closed [ latched ] since they were installed and the kitchen widow remains open [ latched ] all day and is only ever closed at night. SP revised by next years monthly as £80pm. So all in all it works for me at eighty quid a month, and I'm all electric.

I admit to using the provocative word 'eejit' to get people to reconsider that most of the 'groans' about the E7 system is that they do no store enough cheap stuff, and that fixing that issue is cheap money well spent - I ask you again grahamc2003 to consider my simple truth that over-storage makes the use of the damper redundant, and the use of alternative expensive supplementary heating much less often and much shorter in duration.

Best to you grahamc2003.

grahamc2003

Before I address your misconceptions above, please could you confirm the question I asked, i.e.

are you saying you have storage heaters and that the output setting is always set to zero? Even last winter?

Richie-from-the-Boro

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Before I address your misconceptions above, please could you confirm the question I asked, i.e.

are you saying you have storage heaters and that the output setting is always set to zero? Even last winter?

YES, but not only last winter but most of the previous 30 odd years of winters.

If you run out of money its because you have nothing left in the bank to service your needs, for those [STRIKE]cold winters[/STRIKE] unexpected emergencies. The US have a 26 week on land storage of oil, the UK have a 9 day on land storage of oil, we are subject to the vagaries of the spot market pricing - they are not.

Now go on feel free to address my [STRIKE]misconceptions[/STRIKE] 30 year actual / factual real hands on experience, or would you like to ask for more inane certified facts, if you pay me first I'll have my opinions notarized for you, whilst I'm waiting, please address my mistaken thoughts and ideas. Go on you know you want to

pothole50

chris1973 wrote: »

These paraffin heaters also are 99% efficient, making them more efficient at producing heat than oil C.H or portable gas heating, they also dont emit the moisture associated with older gas bottle and traditional paraffin heaters.

Paraffin costs me (currently) 70p a litre bought from a local allotment society, and from burning 1 litre of paraffin I get 10kw worth of heat. This means a cost of around 7p per KW by using paraffin compared to daytime Electricity at 18.85p per KW/H on an E7 daytime rate. It still offers a saving over standard rate electricity at the example 10p - 12p per KW/H, although of course the payback period for the actual heater purchase will be longer, but there are bargain 2nd hand units going for £50 on Ebay from time to time.

I have been looking into the purchase of a paraffin heater, but remember them from old when I was a kid and the smell they give off when switched off. Have they improved this on the newer models. If I could find somewhere in Leicester that supplied paraffin at the price you quote, then I would be tempted to buy one as I am always looking at cheap ways to heat our house, as we don't have central heating. The price they charge at B&Q and on the net brings the KW price up making it more expensive than my 1KW electic heater so any suggestions would be most helpful.

Richie-from-the-Boro

The Inverter Type Paraffin / Laser / Toyotomi Heater

The Smell - Tozane / Rolf / Paraffin Extra are all the same thing to the same spec, and whilst there is a smell on switch on and switch off its not unpleasant and only lasts seconds. The smell is in fact hydrocarbons, the Inverter which is a Laser type heater has unused fuel recovery, uses injectors for gasification, hence they burn at almost 100% efficiency and fewer loose hydrocarbons means less smell.

The Price - The three or more brands are more or less the same price, other than the fact that you will never get enough at B&Q its just not worth the trouble. There are several internet outlets where you can get 20 litres delivered to your door for the same price as driving to B&Q for four litres.

The cheap stuff with the same refined spec is simply VAT free, usually sold from a pump as bulk, and can be had from airports, gardening clubs, model airplane clubs etc put simply, these people have a license to sell at VAT free prices.

The heater concerned can and does run on the less refined stuff even though it has a much lower flash point, this retails at about 90p from local vendors of heating oil, once again you are going to have to find one of these in your area, it does however have a stronger smell than the reined variety. Many people have asserted that the cheaper stuff does not work or that it damages the Inverter, I know people locally who have used the cheap stuff for more than two years with no affect whatsoever on the operation of the heater though it most certainly would invalidate a warranty.

JetA1 Fuel, is exactly the same as helicopter fuel used by the armed forces and civvy choppers, refined to a quality guarantee and sells at about 90p, I've used it in the past from a private airport in my area and it works really well.

Remember without Kerosene / Paraffin the world would never have had Lava Lamps, and for those 'of an age' who remember such lamps and how soddin' hot they were it speaks volumes for the stability of the chemical / Bed Bug's killer / kills mosquito's in standing water / school nurse used to use it for killing nits / cutting and reaming lubricant etc. The yanks have a slightly bigger version which is direct vented and runs on red diesel

pothole50

Thanks for all the info Richie, would anyone really pay £1240 for a paraffin heater.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZIBRO-Paraffin-heater-Laser-FIXED-heater-FF55-230m3-Made-Japan-4-y-warranty-/170709309858?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item27bf1159a2#ht_898wt_1110

chris1973

Umm - no.
Unless they condense the water in the exhaust (which is in principle possible, but not done), they will emit exactly the same amount of water.

You'd be better advised to take this up with the R&D department of the manufacturer of these heaters in order to discuss the more technical side of their design in order to get a more qualified answer. All I have done is to quote verbatim from the literature which accompanies the heater, and speak from my actual experience of using one as a primary source of heat, in that it creates zero condensaton in the room or property.

I assume you use one of these yourself and so are speaking from experience of actually using one rather than assumption or the information gleaned from a glance at the retailers' website?, or do you have some knowledge of the design of them?. I post only in the capacity of somebody who actually uses one and so I believe this qualifies me at least to give my personal experience of their use, as it does form my main living area heating during the Evenings and for upto 14 hours per day (at the weekends). I can also state that from my own experience of using one, I have seen or witnessed no condensation whatsoever, compared to a previously owned gas bottled heater which, after several hours literally made the double glazing drip.

Once again I state that I have no knowledge of how one of these actually works, and since its under warranty, have no desire to open it up in order to void the remainder of the warranty in order to support a difference of opinion on an internet forum. However what I will say, is that upon monitoring the Electrical consumption of my heater it does occasionally draw a load of approx 600W for intermittant / briefest of periods, in addition to the 10w - 20w it constantly draws to run the fan. Whether this load is in relation to how the heater deals with evaporating / preventing any condensation, i'm not qualified to say, however this loading is there, is drawn by the heater and although very intermittant and short in duration it does occur throughout its running. I can think of no other reason, of why a paraffin based heater would draw such a current other than that its part of how it deals with any condensation formation, but I still stand by the findings based on my own experience gained through ownership.

As well as being popular with both the caravan and boating fraternity, I will also say that in some countries these types of heater are still just as popular as gas fired central heating is in the UK and form the main provision of internal heating in many Japanese households (where this heater is actually also engineered and manufactured), which would be strange if they were a leading cause of condensation. Whilst the mere mention of Paraffin heating in the UK may conjure up with some, the memories of Grand Dad's old Greenhouse heater, obviously some countries are a little bit more open minded, and I certainly wouldn't say that Japan was 'backward' as far as technology was concerned. Ultimately perhaps the cost of them, stands as fairwitness to the R&D spent on developing them?.

Yes, they give a faint aroma of 'Jet Fuel' when they start up, and again when they are switched off, but this really is short lived, and certainly no worse than the smell emitted from an Electric Heater when the dust is burned off when its switched on after being stored for the Summer. In addition despite being Paraffin fueled they appear well built and are extremely safe, and in additional to digital thermostatic control feature a variety of sensors which immediately cut off the flame if the unit is knocked, tipped, overheats, becomes clogged with dust (fan intake), requires a filter clean, or if there is excess CO2 detected in the room. I would go so far as to say they are probably more safer than portable gas heaters which feature few, if any, of these protection devices.

I would suggest that anybody who actually gives these a go will probably be as satisfied as I am (and Richie above) and will enjoy quite a reasonably economical form of heating, whilst the sceptics will never know what they've missed, so effectively we will all be happy.

Either way, having been through one Winter with this heater (A winter which was one of the harshest I may add) and approaching another Winter, I won't be exchanging this or putting it up for sale anytime soon, nor will I be swapping my present 7p KW/H heating and going back to paying Npower their 18.85p KW/H Daytime rate.

Whilst Paraffin remains a somewhat little used form of heating in the UK, as energy prices continue to rise at the rate of two large increases per year, that many other households will probably look at using cheaper forms of heating and ultimately their use will become a little more popular. Those holding out for some reprieve on energy cost rises are probably those same people who said that petrol would never rise above £1.00 a litre.

Richie-from-the-Boro

I have two, house and workshop the one in the house I use an aromatic oil in, just a couple of tear-drops, has no effects whatsoever on the heater, companies spend a fortune spraying a smell around the same square area, but I get it for coppers, so not only do I not get a negative scent, and 3 kW but I re-live my formative years with Patchouli.

Workshop - cheepo heating oil paraffin @ 90p

Richie-from-the-Boro

pothole50 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info Richie, would anyone really pay £1240 for a paraffin heater.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZIBRO-Paraffin-heater-Laser-FIXED-heater-FF55-230m3-Made-Japan-4-y-warranty-/170709309858?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item27bf1159a2#ht_898wt_1110

- not likely, I can buy it trade @ £162, but retail its about £220, the Belgian to GBP calculator they used must be FUBAR'd