Is it right to be charged two lots of ground rent? (property: leasehold and freehold)

DomSez

For a few years, I paid ground rent to Estates and Management (E&M) Limited at the rate of £2.00/year and then along the way I found that I could buy the leasehold rentcharge out from The Compton Group. I missed the chance to buy it at £50.00 and paid £100.00 a few years later, in 2007.

I assumed that was the end of the matter.

Then this year, E&M came back to me saying I owed them £10.00 for 5 years' worth of ground rent and when I queried that I had bought out the ground rent for £100.00, they say they are operating on behalf of the freeholders, Fairhold (Huddersfield) Limited.

I sent them a copy of the Compton Group documents but I'm just so confused because as far as I was concerned I'd bought everything out with them, but then they pointed out one is leasehold and freehold.

Before I pay anything to E&M, because they want £10.00 from me within the next 10 days, I thought I'd best ask here. They replied today with the following (once they'd finally digested the Compton Group docs I sent them):

"Please accept our sincerest apology for the delayed contact regarding the above mentioned property.

Having now carried out thorough investigation via the Land Registry and from the documents you provided, I kindly refer you to my following points:

· The letter you provided from the Compton Group dated in 2007 is confirmation of your purchase of a Rent charge interest.

· What we invoice you for is a Ground Rent charge on the behalf of our client the Freeholder who are Fairhold (Huddersfield) Limited.

· Ground Rent is associated with Leasehold properties and Rent Charge is usually only applicable on Freehold properties, however on some rare occasions both ground rent and rent charge can exist on the same property.

· The Land Registry Leasehold title (title no: **mytitlenumber**) we previously provided you clearly refers to yourself as the Leaseholder, thus meaning a Ground Rent charge is payable by you. I have attached the leasehold title again, with the relevant extracts highlighted for your reference.

· The Land Registry Freehold title we previously provided you also clearly refers to our client as the Freeholder, who are entitled to collect Ground Rent. I have also attached the Freehold title again, with the relevant extracts highlighted.

· Please note that we hold a copy of the lease dated 24th December 1907 which you mentioned in the email chain below. This lease is also referred to on your Leasehold title and our client’s Freehold title, which I have highlighted accordingly.

Please be advised that I have searched as thoroughly as possible and unfortunately cannot find any documentation indicating that The Compton Group previously held a rent charge interest in your property. I would strongly suggest that you contact The Compton Group directly and ask them to provide official documentation showing that they were entitled to sell this interest on to you, as they may have issued the release of rent documentation to you in error."

So, is it right to pay two lots of ground rent?

Have the Compton Group screwed me for £100.00 that they shouldn't have done?

I am so massively confused about all this and would be very grateful if someone could explain the situation, thanks.

cte1111

Found this interesting thread on the Compton Group:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/735465

Maybe not directly relevant but it sounds like they might not be the straightest of people to deal with, so maybe they did get something wrong in your case?

HappyMJ

How much did all that investigating cost them just for a tenner? For a bit more help I think you will have to reveal which county you live in. Huddersfield sounds like the north somewhere.

Although they did screw you on the rent charge as it's usually only bought out for much less than 50 times the rent. You may as well let it run to expiry in 2037.

mrschaucer

"and then along the way I found that I could buy the leasehold rentcharge out from The Compton Group."

What made you think you could deal with these people rather than the ones you normally paid your fees to?

propertyman

Well you are not; you are paying a ground rent and were paying a rent charge which are two different things.

It is rather like paying a service charge and tip on the table for the waiter/busboy- one goes to the restaurant and/or to make up staff wages, and the other is a gratuity direct.

And both are confused as being the same thing.

While they have identified the leasehold property as giving rise to the liability 4 ground rent, you now need to look at your lease and your title to see any reference to a rent charge.

The reply you got was quite possibly wrong. Where both charges exist it is usual that the freeholder grants a head lease to a head lessor for all the properties and he grants you a lease for your home under which you pay

1 a ground rent to the head leaseholder
2 a rent charge to the freeholder

For the £100 you spent it might be cheaper to say good bye to that rather than paying a solicitor to investigate

But don't give up read the lease first.

DomSez

Thanks very much for all the replies. I've just emailed the Compton Group to ask whether they were legally entitled to sell the leasehold to me, and I'll report back as soon as I hear back.

As for why I paid them? Because I didn't realise there was a difference between rent charge and ground rent, and I always thought ground rent = leasehold.

I'm not a property expert and you can appreciate how it's very confusing to the layman.

Also, the "conveyance/transfer and release of rentcharge" shows that the vendor is listed as Tapestart Limited, 45-51 Wychtree Street, Morriston, Swansea SA6 8EX. However, I then see that any payments made to Compton show up on a statement as Tapestart, according to their website. Hence, even more confusion.

PS. As an aside, how do I subscribe to this thread? I thought it was automatic, as I started it, but I haven't had any emails through and it's not linked from my control panel. Thanks.

DomSez

(post made so I could subscribe to the thread - I just saw how. I thought it was automatic)

National_Rentcharges_Unit

Free initial advice and information on leaseholders’ rights can be obtained from the Leasehold Advisory Service. This is a specialist body funded by the Department for Communities and Local Government to provide initial advice and information on a wide range of residential leasehold issues. It can be contacted at Maple House, 149 Tottenham Court Road, London, W1T 7BN; by telephone on 020 7383 9800; by fax on 020 7383 9849

G_M

Leasehold Advisory Service.

Step one is to get hold of an up to date copy of your Title from the Land Registry to see exactly what you own. Freehold? Lease? Both?

And to check who owns the freehold if not you.

Step two is to look at your lease for the obligations/fees it imposes on you.

And also check the Title for any other associated fees/conditions.