No contact from landlady - boiler certificate expired

Werdnal

securityman wrote: »

How about if the landlord say they are aware of there tax implication, but then are still not paying it. How would the tenant know?

So the tenant is a non paid tax collector and inspector.
I think that job should be up to the people paid to do it.

I don't make the laws in this country, and agree its a farce, but tenant needs to find out, otherwise they could be hit for potentially 9 years back tax on the rental income. I suggest OP contacts the HMRC, and asks them for advice. It may be that the LL is already doing their tax through someone else, but I very much doubt it.

HMRC cannot collect tax direct from non-resident LLs as their powers do not cover claims overseas. However, as the income (rent) is generated in the UK, it has to be taxed at source - ie from the tenant. If tenant is paying into the LL's account (and not via an agent or a UK relative or other representative) as seems the case here, tenant needs to deduct the tax due from the rent and pay HMRC, then issue a certificate to the LL at the end of the financial year to show whats paid.

If tenant's annual rent is £5200 or over, then tax is due.

If you are genuinely interested in understanding what is required, read the HMRC booklet here and see what the tenant obligations are:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/nrl_guide_notes.pdf

Sadly thems the rules as they say!

minuettoallegretto

I really do wish I'd never asked now - I wanted advice on the gas certificate and the carpet, not a load of extra things to worry about. As securityman says, I now have to be an unpaid tax inspector and collector - and if I hadn't asked the original question, I wouldn't know about it, so how can it be right that I'm liable for her tax? Based on that argument, I wouldn't buy from a shop unless I had proof that all their bills and taxes were paid up to date (bit extreme but you see my point).
And please don't just repeat the arguments above - I've read them and noted them, and now have a huge headache just thinking about it...

G_M

There are 3 issues here, although only the first was initially raised by the OP:

1) The Gas Safety Certificate. Clearly the LL's legal duty to provide, but it is in the tenant's interest (safety) to ensure an inspection is done. So
a) use whatever means are available (email) to contact the LL and if nothing is done then
b) arrange an inspection and deduct from the rent

A CO2 detector (£15 from B&Q) is always sensible.
Contacting Environmental Health and/or the HSE are other options though I see little point since
a) they'll have no more effect contacting the LL abroad and
b) it is confrontational. Arranging an ispection is a more pragmatic solution.

2) Address in Eng/Wales & rent
It is the law that a LL provide one and rent "is not due" without one. There are reasons for this and it is sensible to address this issue. The problem with the GSC highlights why the law requires LL's to provide local contact details, though on this occassion the problem can be solved (see 1 above). But the NEXT issue may be more urgent or legally more serious, so, yes, the tenant SHOULD ensure a local address is obtained.

In the first place I'd recommend using email to explain to the LL, and request the address, but if this does not work (perhaps because the LL no longer monitors that email address/whatever) then step 2, stop paying rent. That will get attention.

The argument that this might lead to a S21 and eviction? Well, it's unlikely
a) because the LL is abroad and will not want the difficulty of evicting OR the inevitable void OR the difficulty of finding a new tenant
b) The tenant will naturally explain that the rent has been set to one side and will be paid as soon as an address is provided and any reasonable LL will accept this (an unreasonable LL is going to be problematic later anyway!)

The long term benefit of soting this outweighs the tiny risk

3) Tax
It IS of concern to the tenant. The tenant IS expected (by HMRC and the law) to know whether the LL has properly arranged their tax affairs. And HMRC MIGHT send a bill for the LL's tax to the tenant! Yes, it's stupid and unfair, but that's the law.

If the tenant is paying a UK agent, fine.
If the LL has provided the tenant with evidence that he has received permission from HMRC to receive the rent in full, fine.

But if the tenant is just paying the rent and has no idea whether the LL has made arrangements wih HMRC, then this can be a big problem.

Basically, HMRC can not easily demand tax off a landlord in Australia. So if the rent is paid direct to the (overseas) LL, HMRC will chase someone who IS in England - the tenant.

Read up about it on the HMRC website and take it seriously.

As with 2) above, step one is to email the LL and ask about the tax/explain the law and step two, if no satisfactory reply is received, is to start deducting tax from the rent (INCLUDING an amount to cover past payments!)

suited-aces

For what its worth, I'm an accountant and can confirm the tax issue as described by G_M is correct.

Secondly, and more generally, posters like road hog should be banned from advising. No because of the insults, we're all big boys and girls, but because they confuse posters seeking help with their incorrect rubbish.

Werdnal

minuettoallegretto wrote: »

I really do wish I'd never asked now - I wanted advice on the gas certificate and the carpet, not a load of extra things to worry about. As securityman says, I now have to be an unpaid tax inspector and collector - and if I hadn't asked the original question, I wouldn't know about it, so how can it be right that I'm liable for her tax? Based on that argument, I wouldn't buy from a shop unless I had proof that all their bills and taxes were paid up to date (bit extreme but you see my point).
And please don't just repeat the arguments above - I've read them and noted them, and now have a huge headache just thinking about it...

OP, I can understand how you are feeling, but remember, you are not actually liable for her tax - you have to pay them from her rent. I am not familiar with how HMRC would deal with the back tax, but I do not think they would make you pay it all in one go. However you should not let this go on any longer and need to seek some advice from HMRC on your situation.

Do you have a local tax office you could contact and make an appoinment to see someone experienced in the NRL regulations? If not, ring the national helpline number - in my experience they are very helpful. The longer you ignore this, the more likely it is to catch up with you anyway, so best tackle it head on.

I know these replies have added to you existing problems, but we are only trying to help!

tbs624

minuettoallegretto wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice so far - I really don't want the hassle of moving, so withholding rent is not an option in my eyes. I'm keeping my fingers crossed she gets back to me soon, in the meantime I will arrange the check - for my own peace of mind, not her convenience, because it's my children will be affected if there's a problem. The stair carpet will have to wait for now - this side of Christmas is out for me financially, so unless she does manage to arrange anything we'll just have to be cautious going up and down.
Just because she lives overseas doesn't mean she IS evading tax. I still maintain it's not my business - it's her property, her money, her responsibility - and if someone started querying MY tax arrangements I would tell them exactly the same. She used to childmind for me years ago, and would have been most offended (rightly!) if I had questioned her financial arrangements then, so why should this be any different?

As has been explained in several posts, these are HMRC's rules as applicable to non resident LLs. AFAIAA there is nothing in the HMRC rulebook about parents deducting tax from payments made to self employed childminders.

Nobody is saying that your LL *is* definitely avoiding tax payments which may be due,it's just that as a T you need to cover your own back.

minuettoallegretto wrote: »

I really do wish I'd never asked now - I wanted advice on the gas certificate and the carpet, not a load of extra things to worry about.

......to be fair you *have* received suggestions on both of those specific issues if you look back.

The other issues are however related. That said, OPs are of course at liberty to read and then choose which parts of people's posts they want to make use of: getting a tad ratty with respond posters, because the OP has now learnt something new, the implications of which cheeses them off comes under the heading of "shooting the messenger"...

It's an open forum, hence why even Road Hog also gets his say <grin>, and there will always be posts which line up perfectly with what we want to hear, some that hit the half way mark and some which are totally unhelpful/downright inaccurate/misleading.

minuettoallegretto wrote: »

As securityman says, I now have to be an unpaid tax inspector and collector - and if I hadn't asked the original question, I wouldn't know about it, so how can it be right that I'm liable for her tax?

The others have explained and we've given you the HMRC links.

minuettoallegretto wrote: »

Based on that argument, I wouldn't buy from a shop unless I had proof that all their bills and taxes were paid up to date (bit extreme but you see my point).

Not really the same situation.

In response to both the OP and

securityman wrote: »

I think that job should be up to the people paid to do it.

)FWIW I don't think its appropriate that Ts should be lumbered with tax deductions either but our personal views on HMRC 's modus operandi are irrelevant.

tbs624

jjlandlord wrote: »

I think that for tax purpose, none of the above is absolutely necessary.
Though obviously, managing a property from abroad is near impossible in practical terms...

The address in E/W requirement was flagged up in relation to rent payments being "lawfully demanded", rather than complying with HMRC.:)

Collie_Collie

Ahh but it does. If a non-UK resident LL does not nominate a UK agent, relative etc to pay their tax due on the rent they recieve, it can actually fall to the tenant to pay the LL's tax direct from the rent.

Doesn't matter whether the council know or not, the LL is evading tax, breaking UK law and tenant should be very careful not to get dragged into the mess! QUOTE]


It's not the main question I know but the landlord may have IR permission to receive the rent in full, without deduction of tax, and may fill in a self assessment form. It's possble the profit falls under the personal allowance. None of this the tenant would necessarily be aware of.

Otherwise I'd get a good Co2 detecter and a basic bit of carpet yourself until she gets back in touch because at a certain point the hassel for these things gets out of proportion to what they cost for you. She may just be on a long holiday of have a crisis so is behind. You know her well so give the benefit of the doubt!

Werdnal

Collie_Collie wrote: »

It's not the main question I know but the landlord may have IR permission to receive the rent in full, without deduction of tax, and may fill in a self assessment form. It's possble the profit falls under the personal allowance. None of this the tenant would necessarily be aware of.

Which is why I and many other replies here have urged the OP to contact HMRC and find out. Tenants in this position h ave a right to ask the HMRC whether such an exemption has been agreed.

As said, there are specific rules for overseas LLs and as the tenant was unaware of these until now, I tend to suspect LL is also ignorant of the requirements.

Collie_Collie

I didn't know that. But I wouldn't want my tax affairs discussed with my tenant - seems an odd rule to me.