just viewed a house that may have subsidence, please help

vsumouse

me and my partner viewed a house recently and realy liked it (perfect location)
but there was an issue with cracks in the wall, when we asked the sellers were very open about the fact it may have subsidence,
they stated that the insurance company sent a surveyer round and he has currently doing tests on the property by meens od tapping little white peices into the external walls at roughly 250mm above floor level (suppose there checking levels).

the test is 2 months in and the report comes back on friday, has anyone had any experience with this?

there is very large trees in the garden and the sellers stated that there was a drainage issue last year (both pointing to subsidence)
but we realy like this house and would love to buy it, so
could anyone give me any infromation on how long the test could take and prices of underpinning (if we would require it at a later date)
also with it being a semi detatched would the property attached require the underpinning aswell if it did come to that.

any advice good or bad welcome

regards.

zipwen1

would you be paying cash for the house

Doozergirl

vsumouse wrote:

there is very large trees in the garden and the sellers stated that there was a drainage issue last year (both pointing to subsidence)

It won't be the trees. Big trees only become an issue when they are cut down. They take HUGE amounts of water from the soil and once that stops, the property can suffer from heave.

However, the drainage issue last year is likley to be the culprit if the movement is new. You need to ask more questions about what happened.

vsumouse wrote:

could anyone give me any infromation on how long the test could take and prices of underpinning (if we would require it at a later date)

They usually monitor over the period of a year. Underpinning costs about £1000 a metre, but it should be covered by the current insurers except for an excess of the first £1000 usually. You won't be able to live in the property while it's being done and any affected room will have to be completely redecorated.

vsumouse wrote:

also with it being a semi detatched would the property attached require the underpinning aswell if it did come to that.

It depends on which walls are affected.

You may not be able to raise a mortgage on a house with subsidence or they may retain some of the funds until the work is carreid out so I'd be telling your mortgage advisor before you try and take things any further. They may be able to find a more sympathetic lender(?)

There's an opportunity for a bit of a bargain there as I can't see many people rushing to buy...Once the work is carried out, it really should be problem solved and the house will go nowhere - more steady than any other house in the street! There's a stigma attached to underpinned houses, but it really should only be houses that need underpinning that people should be wary of.

silvercar

two important questions, can you get a mortgage on the property and can you get building insurance. You need yes answers to both. Even if you don't need a mortgage the person who buys off you might. for building insurance the standard practice is to ask the current insurers if they will continue insuring it for you.

The big problem with subsidence is that it is a long drawn out process and you have to wait years to find out if the problem has been cured. The hassle factor is that you often need to move out while the work is being done.

spunkeyrich

Subsidence claims can be very time consuming. They have placed the pegs in and will check it after 2 months to see if there is any further movement. It is normal proceedure. I am surprised the owners are selling without the result, however sometimes the insurance claim can be transffered to the new owners who will then complete the claim.
Removal of trees is a sometimes a cause because a tree and its environment is used to a certain amount of moisture being sucked up by the tree, if that tree is taken away too quick then the ground may become waterlogged and affect foundations.
Also, big trees have big roots which can damage drains, depends on the type of tree but if you look at a tree and its branches there is double the size underground with roots.
Ask the agent about the situation why they moving, can the insurance be transferrable, has the neighbour been done. You will probably have to reinsure with the current insurer as it will be difficult elsewhere.
Also, the newly underpinned home is funnily enough more stable than one that hasnt been done, so the other semi may suffer over time.
If you need a mortgage the company may not be willing to lend on it, or there may be a large retention based on the work needing doing, they will require building insurance hence check with the present company that insure it now.

cheers

rich

Phil37

Hello, a CCTV survey of the drainage will show any damage to the drainage, if the drainage is damaged i,e leaking joints due to cracks or root damage, roots can be romoved by water powered root cutters and the pipe can be repaired by Lining (CIPP) this is done placing a new pipe inside the exsisting pipe and inflated to mould to the internal pipe diameter very quick and cheaper than excavating to old drainage, most cases of subsidence is due to poor condition of the drainage, hope this helps
Phil

vsumouse

zipwen1 wrote:

would you be paying cash for the house

i will require a mortgage for this, thanks guys for your input, ill be going to see the bank and call a few insurance companys, the owners said the the claim could be transfered but i dont want to buy the place and not be able to live in it got a year or so whilst they test it.

i will keep you updated with any news.

thanks for the help

courtjester

Doozergirl wrote:

It won't be the trees. Big trees only become an issue when they are cut down. They take HUGE amounts of water from the soil and once that stops, the property can suffer from heave.

Wow doozer, that's a bit of a massive generalisation:
"...it won't be the trees" !!

The causes of subsidence are many, complex and varied and the presence of trees are often a contributing factor. The type of tree is relevant as not all trees create a problem, but also the combination of tree type, proximity to the building, slope, soil conditions, foundation construction and depth, new-build or extensions and how they integrate with the main building, presence of drains, seasonal weather variation (drought) etc.

Unless investigations reveal a fairly obvious cause (such as a broken drain immediately below the movement area with only slight movement and all other causes ruled out or non-existent), then dealing with subsidence can be a very long and drawn out business. If as in many cases, there is more than one cause or a combination of causes, it may be necessary to carry out remedial works on the likely culprits and then monitor for up to 18 months (through 3 changes of season) to verify that the solution has stabilised all movement, before the building can be given a clean bill of health - and that's only for the worst cases of subsidence. If the problem is heave (upward movement of the ground), this is much harder and more expensive to deal with.

Heave can be the result of very long term re-hydration (and thus swelling) of the ground following removal of established mature trees. It doesn't necessarily happen straight after the trees are removed and can go on for years.

Irrespective of views on the effectiveness of subsidence remedial repairs (under-pinning is not necessarily the correct solution), it is clear that subsidence can blight a property in the eyes of future buyers, much of which is due to the attitude of insurers to the problem. In the 70's when subsidence was a relatively new insurance incident (as household policies didn't cover it before then), a lot of properties were under-pinned badly or for the wrong reasons as the technology was in its infancy and not well-understood. A lot of early under-pinning (dig a hole and fill with concrete) has gone on to cause more problems because the cause(s) were not properly identified and this was not the correct solution in many cases, or the under-pinning was badly designed or implemented.

I would think very seriously before committing to a property which has had subsidence and /or under-pinning - it is vital to check that the cause(s) were established by adequate investigations and the remedial works certificated by engineers.

A property that is only at the initial stage of investigations could be a major liability, as you just can't estimate what the future outcome might be or how long it will take to resolve the issue.

Kizzy001

Don’t buy a house which has subsidence or underpinning, it will only be harder for you to sell it on afterwards.

Ems*Honie

Kizzy001 wrote:

Don’t buy a house which has subsidence or underpinning, it will only be harder for you to sell it on afterwards.

Imho, this is too 'general'
Our garage has subsidence. Because it doesn't have the right depth foundations. It will have no effect what so ever on future sales and purchases once it is rebuilt, not all subsidence is that straight forward. As the gargae is attached to the house, it was considered part of the house during sale.

I could never understand the problem with underpinned houses, theres no subsidence there anymore, its been fixed! However I do appreciate many people do have issues with it.

AS to the OP, I would be very cautious, it is very difficult to get insurance on a house with 'ongoing' subsidence. You cannot (or certainly couldn't when I bought this house in sept) transfer an insurance claim, as it affects your future no claims bonus etc.

Doozergirl

You're right courtjester. I meant more in the 'trees AND drainage' way that the vendors had mentioned, not just trees, but I can see exactly what I wrote.

And yes I totally agree about being concerned about buying a house that is under investigation. I personally wouldn't buy unless I knew exactly what was wrong and how I could fix it.