so i went to the bank

elantan

(well actually the building society but i reckon its harder to tell the difference now a days )

looking for some I.S.A stocks and shares advice and was told to invest in the following

Jupiter Merlins Income portfolio ( acc fund)
M&G Recovery A fund ( Acc fund)
First state Gbl Emerging mkts leaders A fund ( acc fund)

this advice was given to me as i had said i was interested in a low medium and high risk start to my investing life


for jupiter merlin
i'm paying 5.25% initial charge
1.5% AMC ( what ever that is ... can some one let me kow)
2.43 % ter ( ditto the AMC)

for M&G
i'm paying 4% initial charge
1.5% amc
1.65% ter

for first state
i'm paying 4% initial charge
1.5 % amc
1.61% ter

am i being ripped off ? can i use my money investments in a better way? if so what would you recommend ?

i have since phoned up the portfolio provider ( is that the right term?) L&G and asked them for information regarding index tracker funds as it appears that ( from what i have read here) they are the best options ... am i right in saying that?

any help greatly appreciated

thanks

el

qpop

Active vs passive is a matter of philosophy, and you'll hear people arguing either option to the grave.

How much are you investing? The initial charges are high (though I'm not surprised as you've gone to a buildo for financial advice)

Were they proposing investing on a platform?

The Jupiter fund is a "fund of funds" - so a manager buys other funds, rather than direct equities, this is why the TER (total expense ratio) is high.

M&G Recovery is a successful UK fund, and First State Global Emerging Market Leaders is probably one of the best performing funds of recent years (but high risk due to the markets invested in).

If you are looking for advice, I'd recommend finding an IFA (using http://www.findanadviser.org or https://www.unbiased.co.uk ).

If you want to go DIY, you could always buy those funds (or whatever you wanted) on a discount platform (such as https://www.hl.co.uk) so you'd typically have £0 initial charges, and the potential for some of the 1.5% AMC (annual management charge) to be refunded to your account.

elantan

thanks for the help its much appreciated ...

not sure if they are planning on investing in a platform ... as i am sorry but i have no idea what that is ( shruggy smiley instert)

i'm only putting £20 a month into each fund at present ( with plans to put more in as my finances improve ) ... i'm trying to get my feet wet in the investing world as i am terrified of the future retirement prospects ( like alot of other people i;m sure) i didnt want to commit to putting in too much until i fully know what i am doing ...

i have read the tim hale book and whilst it has helped me understand it a wee bit its still a minefields for me tbh ... i want to learn but am struggling with it all , i am very aware that my style of learning is through asking and answering questions ...

would i be better cancelling my current funds if i am paying over the odds?

Linton

Dont know about the Jupiter Merlin but the other two are highly regarded funds in their sectors. I have held M&G Recovery for nearly 20 years - average annual return 6.5%, better than a FTSE tracker.

There are no comparable trackers in their sectors.There are people around here who are happier with trackers as they give the fund managers less, personally I am only interested in the return that comes to me.

I am not sure about the low/medium/high risk, I would put it as medium/high/high in terms of volatility. But you do need to distinguish between the short term volatility and the long term opportunities for growth.

The initial charges seem rather high, you should have gone to an online broker/funds supermarket but what's done is done.

elantan

where else should i have went though? i dont think i am spending enough to warrant a hl account ( or am i?) if i am spending £20 a month isnt that a bit of a barrier to getting decent charges?

next April would i be better upping my payments to say £50 a fund and going with someone else? and if so who ?


thanks again for the help ... i'm learning slowly ( very slowly) i want to learn and i feel alot of the learning comes in either dodging landmines or skirting very close to them ...

Linton

elantan wrote: »

i have read the tim hale book and whilst it has helped me understand it a wee bit its still a minefields for me tbh ... i want to learn but am struggling with it all , i am very aware that my style of learning is through asking and answering questions ...

would i be better cancelling my current funds if i am paying over the odds?

IMHO the Tim Hale book is 90% excellent, but his belief in the desirability of the FTSE All Share as THE index for investing doesnt convince me.

Are you investing in an S&S ISA? Apart from avoidance of tax, using an ISA avoids the hassle of keeping detailed records for the taxman.

For future investments I would suggest you look at the online brokers. I use Fidelity (https://www.fidelity.co.uk) but there are several around who can give you a better deal than your building society.

qpop

elantan wrote: »

thanks for the help its much appreciated ...

not sure if they are planning on investing in a platform ... as i am sorry but i have no idea what that is ( shruggy smiley instert)

i'm only putting £20 a month into each fund at present ( with plans to put more in as my finances improve ) ... i'm trying to get my feet wet in the investing world as i am terrified of the future retirement prospects ( like alot of other people i;m sure) i didnt want to commit to putting in too much until i fully know what i am doing ...

i have read the tim hale book and whilst it has helped me understand it a wee bit its still a minefields for me tbh ... i want to learn but am struggling with it all , i am very aware that my style of learning is through asking and answering questions ...

would i be better cancelling my current funds if i am paying over the odds?

For a £60 / month regular saving an IFA (or bank adviser) is really not going to add any value for you.

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/investing/2011/11/24/beat-a-tracker-with-less-risk.aspx?source=uhpsithla0000001

That article is a good start on investment trusts, some of which offer a charges-free regular saving vehicle that invests in stocks and shares. (Annual charges apply, but you get to buy the shares for free)

The universe of investment is huge, but with small regular savings, investment trust regular saving schemes (there are a couple of forum members on here who are far more knowledgeable about them than I), or a DIY platform such as Hargreaves Lansdown, where you can purchase OEICs(which the above three funds you mentioned are) with no initial commission.

OEIC(Open-ended Investment Company)/UT (Unit Trust) are collective investment vehicles that always trade at the value of the underlying investments, where-as investment trusts only have a certain number of shares in existence, and can trade at a premium/discount to the underlying value of their investments, by the way.

elantan

thanks both of you ... i do appreciate it ...

ok giving that my current plans are not going to give me any real value, i am getting the feeling that i have made a bit of a rookie mistake ( i dont imagine i am alone in doing this either) i am wondering if i would be better off cancelling my current plan ( the first payment is due to come out on the 8th of Nov this year) and maybe saving the money via another vehicle until i have a bit more money ... ( i am hoping once one of my 0% visas are paid to up it to £250 a month... this should be in approx 8 months time) and then going around about it another way

i know i am not investing much... £60 a month is pitiful tbh ( and i was very aware of this when i decided) i just didnt want to invest too much till i understood th ings better

what would you do in my circumstance ? i know i am responsible for my own actions and i know i have to make my own mind up about what i am going to do with my money ( pitiful as it is) but as i am still on a steep learning curve any help and advice would be most appreciated

thanks again

qpop

elantan wrote: »

thanks both of you ... i do appreciate it ...

ok giving that my current plans are not going to give me any real value, i am getting the feeling that i have made a bit of a rookie mistake ( i dont imagine i am alone in doing this either) i am wondering if i would be better off cancelling my current plan ( the first payment is due to come out on the 8th of Nov this year) and maybe saving the money via another vehicle until i have a bit more money ... ( i am hoping once one of my 0% visas are paid to up it to £250 a month... this should be in approx 8 months time) and then going around about it another way

i know i am not investing much... £60 a month is pitiful tbh ( and i was very aware of this when i decided) i just didnt want to invest too much till i understood th ings better

what would you do in my circumstance ? i know i am responsible for my own actions and i know i have to make my own mind up about what i am going to do with my money ( pitiful as it is) but as i am still on a steep learning curve any help and advice would be most appreciated

thanks again

Check the cancellation terms with the buildo. But definately get it cancelled. They'll offer no more service than if you do it yourself.

Read/absorb as much info as you can, but you could do worse than dripping the £60pm into something like this:

http://www.bailliegifford.com/pages/UKPersonalInvestors/SharePlan/SharePlan.aspx
http://www.bailliegifford.com/pages/UKPersonalInvestors/InvestmentTrusts/ScottishMortgage/Landing.aspx
http://www.trustnet.com/Factsheets/Factsheet.aspx?fundCode=ITSMT&univ=T

(for example)

or, as said previously, you could logon to https://www.hl.co.uk, set up an ISA and start paying into those funds, but save yourself the initial commission. The only caveat is that I think Hargreaves Lansdown won't let you contribute less than £50 per fund, so pick the one you like most for the moment and add more as more money becomes available.

Either of the above options would be a good start.

elantan

thanks i appreciate your help.... will do that tomorrow when i get off the night shift ...

elantan

Wow just re read this there

Here I am less than two years later, have read the Tim Hale book again and understood much more of it, have been learning as much as I can about funds etc and I know I have much much more to learn.

I cancelled the building societies share dealing account and went with H&L I have just over £3k in the accounts now and have just upped my DDM to £300 a month ( this will alter back to £250 when I don't have overtime coming in)

I've also go the vanguard Lifestrategy 80 acc fund slowly building up

I still have a long way to go but slowly getting there

Thanks very much for all your help