Rented a house for 7 years, what should I expect RE: Deposit return?

moneysavingfail

Hi guys,

This forum is getting a bit addictive - It seems to have lifes answers.

Anyhoo...

I've always had a good relationship with my agency and also the landlord - although I've never met him.

So I've given notice to leave and I've been sent a pack of things Its "Suggested" that I do.

I'm having trouble with the whole 'wear and tear' thing. CAn you help me understand a little clearer? I'll explain the situation clearer and then I'll list the things I'm not sure about.

• Rented the same house for 7 years
• Renting through an agency
• placed a £850 deposit

Ive been a good tennant (If I do say so myself)

• Never missed a payment
• Fix stuff around the house and just send the reciepts to the agency - I dont charge for my time
• Ive arranged for large maitenence to be carried out to save the landlord time

Wear and tear? Do I have to do the things that are "suggested"?

1. The carpets havent been changed in 7 years - It's suggested that I have them cleaned? (£100-150)
2. Walls - it's suggested I re-paint? (£150 -£200)
3. One of the carpets has been damaged from excessive rubbing of the bottom of the door - am I liable for this?

Finally, the bathroom tiles were poorly laid and needed fixing (listed on inventory) and I replaced them with a nice lino - at no cost to the LL

I just want to know my options in case there is any difficulties.

Any help much appreciated.

tbs624

(property in Eng/Wales, property let under an AST agreement)

Have you signed a new tenancy agreement at any point after the tenancy deposit regs came in (6 April 2007)?

Is there a jointly signed inventory for the property?

You're obliged to return the property in the same condition as when let to you, save for fair wear and tear.

Have a look here and here for guidance on what constitutes fair wear and tear.

FW&T does not include damage or dirt. If the carpets were clean when you moved in ( and described/agreed to be as such on any signed inventory) then you should clean them to the same standard on leaving.

Unless you have knocked chunks out of the paintwork or marked the walls then repainting of walls is not generally down to the T, neither is wear from a door rubbing on the carpet. That said, did you flag this carpet issue up during your tenancy so that the LA/LL had the opportunity to rectify it by getting the door planed?

Most experienced LLs won't have an issue where a T has clearly improved something (esp. if its a no cost to them personally) but when you say that you "replaced" the bathroom floor tiles, do you mean that you took the tiles up & disposed of them or did you just cover them with the lino? Did you get written agreement from the LL/LA to do this?

LLs/LAs cannot simply make unilateral decisions about any proposed deductions/ action that the T needs to take and even where it is agreed bewteen LL and T that T should bear a cost, it's important that you know that the LL cannot seek betterment, ie use the T's deposit as a kind of "new for old" insurance cover.

Negotiation is key and remember that the "info Pack that the LA has sent out may well be a standard one that gets sent to all exiting Ts.

theartfullodger

When did you sign the last tenancy agreement?? If after 6th April 2007 then deposit protection covers the deposit, if before then it's (ultimately) down to court action to recover it .. see..
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/paying_for_a_home/tenancy_deposits/getting_an_unprotected_deposit_back

My view as a Landlord would be after 7 years pretty much everything would need replacing under "fair wear & tear" (carpets, paint on walls/woodwork etc etc..) and unless there was obvious damage (as opposed to wear..) nothing should be withheld..

mustrum_ridcully

House of Lords define wear and tear as "Reasonable use of the premises by the Tenant and the ordinary operation of natural forces".

Perhaps the best way I heard it described is "fair wear and tear is what you would expect to see in your own house after that period of time", though I suspect some LLs wouldn't agree...

Fair wear and tear does allow for some dirt, unless the property is hermetically sealed and the people inside wear those white suits used by forensic investigators and breathing equipment human habitation and environmental pollution means there will be some dirt - even if you clean the place.

I recently help some friends move after they sold their house, despite them keeping it spotless you could still dirt/discolouration where picture frames and furniture had been.

theartfullodger

Mustrum -- re the "House of Lords" definition I've seen this quote in a few places but have not been able to find the case from which it comes - do you know please??

re..

fair wear and tear is what you would expect to see in your own house after that period of time

Interesting: I've always assumed that tenants would produce more "wear & tear" than a home-owner and thus expected more wear than "in your own house".. i.e. I (hope) I've been more than fair in my allowances of fair-wear-'n-tear..

tbs624

Artful - the words originally came from Talbot , J in the case Haskell v. Marlow [1928] See also Regis Property Company v Dudley [1959]

G_M

moneysavingfail wrote: »

.....Wear and tear? Do I have to do the things that are "suggested"?

1. The carpets havent been changed in 7 years - It's suggested that I have them cleaned? (£100-150)
2. Walls - it's suggested I re-paint? (£150 -£200)
3. One of the carpets has been damaged from excessive rubbing of the bottom of the door - am I liable for this?

Finally, the bathroom tiles were poorly laid and needed fixing (listed on inventory) and I replaced them with a nice lino - at no cost to the LL

.

As tbs says, negotiation is always a good idea.

1. Dirt is dirt, it's not wear and tear. Having said that, the LL might be planning to replace the carpets after 7 years in which case he might be happy to agree to forgo any cleaning. Discuss.
2. If you have 'damaged' the paintwork, then repaint. If it is faded/worn, that's wear and tear. But there's bound to be borderline cases: 'marks' which could be described by a pedantic landlord as 'damage' but which you and I would call 7 years wear and tear.....
3. Caused by door supplied/fitted by landlord? Not your fault, though tenants have a duty to be responsible in not allowing damage to the property. It could be argued you should have reported the problem (in writing) to the LL so that he could solve the problem before further damage was caused. Did you?

Bathroom. Provided you did this with the landlord's approval, no problem. Did you get written approval? If not, then again a pedantic LL could require you to re-instate the tiles (or pay), though most would just thank you for your work and return your deposit!

moneysavingfail

some very helpful answers here - thank you guys. I think its odd that you're not allowed to go back to the property to make good any thing which the LL objects to.

Surely, the best way would be a pre-inspection 7-10 days prior to leave and then corrections agreed upon there and then - deposit refund subject to agreed actions?

Is there any way this can be done?

Finally, yes - I have one of those deposit certificate things.

Werdnal

Why not contact the agent/LL and invite them to visit and advise what they expect you to do to comply with the tenancy agreement.

TBH, as a LL myself, after 7 years I would want to re-decorate the property anyway. Even good quality carpets in heavy traffic areas only have a life of 5-10 years, so cleaning them may actually make them look worse, as worn areas will look faded and scruffy whilst the rest will look clean!

Remember, tenancy agreements have to cover every eventuality and some tenants would only stay in a property for 6 months, so carpet cleaning/making good the decore would be all thats required. In your circumstances, I feel the LL should be looking to thoroughly update it all anyway, so your only obligation would be to leave it clean and tidy.

Also, take photos of everything when you leave, just in case there are any arguments later.

moromir

moneysavingfail wrote:

I think its odd that you're not allowed to go back to the property to make good any thing which the LL objects to.

Surely, the best way would be a pre-inspection 7-10 days prior to leave and then corrections agreed upon there and then - deposit refund subject to agreed actions?

The problem with 'pre inspections' is that the inventory clerk/Landlord etc can't really ascertain the full extent of the condition of the property with your possessions in it - for example your settee, wardrobes etc all cover up large portions of wall, rugs etc cover up that sneaky wine stain etc, I can't think an agent worth his salt would agree to finalise deposit matters on the strength of a 'pre-inspection', I'm also not sure what else they could tell you in person that wasn't already in your info pack, the idea is good in principle but I can't see it being a great deal of help to anyone.