Tenants done a bunk and left house full of furniture, what to do?

Werdnal

Just to clarify things further, could you/your mother answer the following:

When did tenancy start - exact date?
Was there a fixed term, if so when did/does that end?
Is property in England/Wales? Scottish tenancy law is different.
Was deposit mentioned in one of your earlier posts, protected in a government scheme and the "prescribed information" given to the tenants?
What form did the notice your mother gave them take? Was it just a letter telling them to vacate, or was it a formal Section 21 notice?
How much rent is owing?

G_M

clairibel wrote: »

Sorry posted before the abandonment notice post, thanks will get on to asap.

Please READ THE LINK in my abandonment Notice post. Perhaps I should be clear:

Using an Abandonment Notice is NOT a good idea!

clairibel

Werdnal wrote: »

Just to clarify things further, could you/your mother answer the following:

When did tenancy start - exact date?
Was there a fixed term, if so when did/does that end?
Is property in England/Wales? Scottish tenancy law is different.
Was deposit mentioned in one of your earlier posts, protected in a government scheme and the "prescribed information" given to the tenants?
What form did the notice your mother gave them take? Was it just a letter telling them to vacate, or was it a formal Section 21 notice?
How much rent is owing?

I will have to ask her later about some of these answers but its 1 months rent in arrears and they are on housing benefit but the council would not pay direct to my mum. My mum asked them to set up a direct debit but she stalled on that one, not sure why.
But this has happened about 5 or 6 times that they have been in arrears and they have always sorted it out, but now she can't contact them.

To be honest i think my mums left herself wide open and been too informal. I do think now the only way is to go the court route as it looks like the tenant wins everyway, even though they behave badly.

My mum believed the sob story and has nothing but problems since.

The form of notice was a verbal disscussion with the tenant when they went into arrears last time and the tenant gave my mum notice that they would vacate in 8 weeks time, so my mum put this in writing confirming the tenants wishes.

That would take the tenant upto the week before christmas to vacate. My mum then asked the tenant if she could enter and do jobs and clear garden etc in preparation, tenant said yes so mum put that in writing that on the 21st she would enter to tidy, weed etc.

But no sign of the tenant at the mo, cannot contact them. Gas has been turned off by gas company as they are in arrears and like i said bailiffs are imminent from letters left.

UK property.

BitterAndTwisted

Yes, we know that the property is in the UK but you must be aware that the laws are different in England & Wales to Scotland and Northern Ireland. Therefore your mother must be very, very careful about how she goes about attempting to repossess the property. This is absolutely vital.

theartfullodger

England??
Wales??
Scotland??
Somewhere else??

(The law differs..)

Write (yes WRITE!!! ..) to HB/LHA people stating the place appears to have been abandoned and are they aware of tenant having moved (but make it clear you ain't asking for new address..). If council say they've moved you'd be in a much stronger position.

G_M

clairibel wrote: »

The form of notice was a verbal disscussion with the tenant when they went into arrears last time and the tenant gave my mum notice that they would vacate in 8 weeks time, so my mum put this in writing confirming the tenants wishes.

.

I've had a similar experience - tenants ringing up and saying they were giving notice as they would probobly be leaving on XX date.

On that occassion I wrote a letter from THEM, addressed to ME, phoned up to ask if I could pop round, then gave them the letter and said "as you are leaving, could you formalise things by signing this please?"

Verbal notice from tenant is worse than nothing, as it leaves so much open to doubt and dispute.

Written notice is all that matters.

Werdnal

clairibel wrote: »

The form of notice was a verbal disscussion with the tenant when they went into arrears last time and the tenant gave my mum notice that they would vacate in 8 weeks time, so my mum put this in writing confirming the tenants wishes.

For now I will assume your property is in England or Wales (UK covers Scotland and NI aswell where tenancy law is very different).

Sadly neither of these forms of "notice" will stand up if your mum applies for court possession. I think she needs to issue formal notices and start the procedure all over again. The standard Notice is a Section 21, which she can issue now - but must run for 2 months before she can apply to court. In the case of rent arrears, she can issue a Section 8 immediately the 2nd month's rent becomes due, which has a shorter expiry and usually results a guaranteed possession - however, be warned that tenants only need to settle their arrears beforehand for this to become invalid, so she would need to issue both notices as a S21 will take the place should the rent arrears claim fail.

The tenant's deposit must be protected in a scheme before the S21 is issued, otherwise it is void - did you confirm that the deposit is protected (sorry I have lost where we've got so far!)?

Both these notices must be completed correctly and with the correct dates and expiry time, otherwise when it comes to court, they can be dismissed and you need to start all over again.

Examples of both notices and how to complete them can be found online, but I would recommend you/your mother sign up for the Landlordzone forum - great free resource for advice and support, and many of the forms you need are available on their documents pages (you need to re-register on their site a second time to access for forms).

Meanwhile, as suggested above, the LH/HB should be advised of your suspicions that they have left - they will not divuldge new addresses, but will probably confirm whether a new claim has been submitted for another address, which will give you evidence that they have moved. If they are not aware that tenants have moved, tell you mother to advise them of the rent arrears and immediately the 2 months due date arrives, she can request direct payment to her instead of the tenants.

I know this seems a very longwinded procedure, but it is the only way to get the place back securely and prevent any counter claims agsint your mum. I have my suspicions that as all their belonging are still in the property, they may yet resurface, and have "disappeared" for the time being, knowing your mum was planning a visit and trying to avoid her. She could try the trick of placing a small strip of clear tap between the door frame and door, so she can check whether anyone is coming and going. If tape is missing or broken, she knows someone has opened the door!

G_M

Werdnal wrote: »

...
The standard Notice is a Section 21, which she can issue now - but must run for 2 months before she can apply to court. In the case of rent arrears, she can issue a Section 8 immediately the 2nd month's rent becomes due, which has a shorter expiry and usually results a guaranteed possession - however, be warned that tenants only need to settle their arrears beforehand for this to become invalid, so she would need to issue both notices as a S21 will take the place should the rent arrears claim fail.

Having an off day so I may be wrong here but...

Under S8, the 2 months arrears requirement is to ensure the court HAS to give possession.
The landlord could issue a S8 while less than 2 months arrears (ie immediately) and the court then has discretion to award possession.

If the tenants really have abandoned and the S8 is, of course, sent to the property, then it is possible/likely the tenants will not attend court or dispute the S8. Add in the apparant abandonment, and the LL reporting the tenants' verbal notice - which will be uncontested - and the judge is likely to use discretion and award possession - thus the LL need not wait 2 months.

But there's a risk the tenants turn up and/or the judge diclines possession.

Werdnal

You are of course correct as usual GM, but as there is still uncertainty about the abandonment and without any further evidence, OP could fall foul of the "dicretional" decision - if perhaps tenants suddenly return in the meantime. Unlikely but when dealing with tenants you always need to prepare for the unexpected!

I would say it depends when next month's rent is due - if less than 10 days away for instance, by the time the OP has sorted the notice paperwork for her mother and familiarised herself/mother with the procedure, might be advisible to hang on for the 2 month "arrears" point and hit them with the notice the following day.

Christmas is also looming with will delay court action anyway!

clutton_2

contact the council tax office and see if the liability for the property still rests with the tenants...... no data protection issues here and at least you will know if they have left.

If they have declared themselves no longer liable and are responsible at another address, then i would take a risk, put their stuff in a garage and re let.....

btw - Abandonment notices have no legal backup.... i have used them, as have other landlords, but Tessa Shepperson, Specialist landlord and tenant solicitor, says they dont exist under any legislation she knows of and she knows them all...... So legally speaking, court is the only way - or take a risk... your call

Court may take you 3-4 months....